First, let's be more precise:




You mean like a ROM or EPROM? Well, look at the source code. Can you touch it? Inhale it? Or put it in your mouth? It's purely virtual. Only when you burn the ROM, you see a different atomic structure in the silicon chip. Something I would call: "atomic correlate of information".

So, if you are a materialist you could argue, that the source code is an electron state in the RAM, which is considered matter due to the electron's mass. Then think of information as a photon traveling an optical fibre or a laser beam - photons are massless (=! relativistic mass like light pressure). I think light or information is a good example of the "spiritual" nature in contrast to the "material" nature, like silicon wafer or copper wires.

Something I learned yesterday and is worthwhile to note:


1969!

^..this is good stuff Ufostrahlen..
when i have a chance to ponder and meditate i'll get back to this thread..

but, in quantum mechanical terms - where IS the information?

thanks Ufostrahlen, (and also Traveler for setting up that response ) and the other contributors..
.

You're welcome nen888 and Psybin.


Good question, I don't know. At least it's not present in the Newtonian physics space - or in other words: the Newtonian physics space is probably a subset of quantum mechanics or digital physics and doesn't apply to the consciousness phenomena.

I hope I don't bore the Nexus, but Thomas Campbell is on the non-academic forefront of "digital physics and metaphysical implications" like entities, precognitive dreams, remote viewing, OBEs etc. I like his approach to the metaphysics realm, since he's not your average woo fairy - he's a NASA physicists/programmer/Matlab dude.



His book: My Big Toe: Awakening, Discovery, Inner Workings: A Trilogy Unifying Philosophy, Physics, and Metaphysics

His Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/twcjr44

Maybe this video sheds more light on where the information is located:



It's also funny to note that the fathers of quantum mechanics like Max Planck, Erwin Schrödinger or Werner Heisenberg were very "spiritual" physicists. Planck even proposed a unification of religion and sciences, opposed to the triumph of science over religion.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Max_Planck




https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Werner_Heisenberg



https://en.wikiquote.org.../Erwin_Schr%C3%B6dinger

Beautifully said, Citta. I feel that Spiritus is that seemingly unseen force which dances throughout all of creation, whichever frequency of being it manifests as, whichever form it assumes, it still vibrates symbiotically with all other frequencies. It is present within all phenomena, yet bound by nothing. It is a changeless circle, forever changing into new possibilities (paradoxically so).

My spin is admittedly, more than somewhat leaning towards Unified Field theory, quantum physics and M theory (all 5 string theories entwined as one seamless thread). That said, my foundations are stemmed fundamentally in New Thought, Kriya Yoga, Advaita Vedanta and Taoism.

You are so spot on, for as the voyager shifts attention exponentially, awareness of light dawns within the mind of the innermost witness, as the frozen mesmerism of self-identification and the mirage of self-awareness shatters into so much cosmic dust... consciousness holds fast and crystalizes an unwaivering focus, which finds it's truest center within the ever present moment. There are many paths ascending into the beyondest of beyonds.

Beautiful words, Rising Spirit!

Quite right.

To me spirituality is something like a feeling, comprised of part wonder, part awe, part feeling small and part feeling all. DMT experiences have been deeply spiritual as they have this element of something 'higher' that has no english definition besides the term 'spiritual'. It's simply something 'more' that can only be experienced and never truly explained. Perhaps neuroscientists would disagree, but I have to give credit to any scientist who digs spirituality and does not dismiss it. And a lot of them have taken psychs... go figure.

Body. To be in the Body. Being here. Nothing more.

Spirit/Spirituality refers to the underlying structure of harmony of reality. You need both Structure and Harmony to create reality.
We think in good and bad as we should, but harmony of reality does not. However, harmony does mean that is a dynamic flow of energy that makes the existence persist.
Harmony of reality can not be seen in it's truest form by us, but it does exist.

Now, the structure is the matter that manifest as a result of achieving harmony. Therefor creating a reality. In other words; TL;DR; Spirituality is one of the two components that make this reality.

-Seagull

I wish people could come up with a better word then spirituality when describing its core values and phenomenon as diverse as both can be. Most of the values people have and phenomenon they experience which are ascribed the term spiritual have naturalistic explanations. Spiritual implies supernatural and therefore not real to me.

Hello old friend. And I agree. I'd personally prefer something more specific, like: hyper-spacial, multi-dimensional, undifferentiated void or unified field (something along those esoteric but definitive lines). Infinite symmetry? From my own spirit journeys, I have always taken certain bejeweled epiphanies and quantum revelations about the nature of existence, both subjectively and objectively, back into my "ordinary world". Spiritus implies a state of non-ordinary reality to most people and ironically, it is closer than close. Immanent and present within all of creation.

I honestly feel that it is more like perceiving the interior interconnections existent within all phenomena. My belief is that the heightened fields of cognition are gifted by the pure symmetry of consciousness abloom. Perhaps it's all our collective dreamscapes entwined but it's such a wondrous patterning and texture. I feel in my deepest heart-core, that you folks are indeed, my "spiritual" family.

What if it’s the energetic correspondence with physical reality?

Word.

Perhaps your choice of "energetic" is the most appropriate? I just can't stand anthropomorphic deification these days. The ancient Chinese notion of The Eternal Tao reflects such an insubstantial force moving throughout all manifested forms of sentient consciousness... living, loving and earnestly training with unwavering intention, to be both buoyantly grounded within the 3rd dimensional paradigm and simultaneously in total attunement with the limitlessness of the forever blooming infinite web in it's enigmatic, spiralling motion. Just look to the stars overhead!

Ehh. I retract my previous statement.

Spiritual is the front runner of existence, the first

To me, spirit is awareness. It is no mystery to us that we are made of vibrating matter, which in itself, alone, is not conscious. However, somehow the jumble of neurosoups within our heads have become sentient. We aren't really sure what the mind is, in its entirety. So, for me, spirit is the miracle of awareness, the knowing that we "are" and the all the burdens and joys which may accompany this fact. Awareness, or spirit, is the greatest and most ineffable gift of all. It's transient, yet permanent. It's the ebb and flow of the universe that will continue (presumably) forever.

Fascinating idea and I truly do understand why you so strongly feel this way. Words are indeed symbols, quite naturally, so much of the semantics we use are very personalized to our unique experiences. My notion of spiritual, spiritus or simply the immortal spirit... stems from my experiences of the energies I've encountered while journeying with sacred medicines, decades of contemplation and from the routine practice of deep meditation. I have come to feel the the spiritual is a latticework of sorts, the invisible blueprint and interior mechanics of all material life (which includes death, but of course). It is said that everything is a form of energy and it's substance exists because of said currentvof energy. Also, what is prevalent is that the opposite shadow of such energies is inertia or a complete void of any substance or perceivable energy flow and the absence of any field or fulcrum.

While energy's effect can be reached with our five senses, there is also energy which cannot be grasped by our mortal faculties. Like the great Nikola Tesla, I too believe there is an unseen or etheric field of said energy within and around the panorama underlying the entire phenomenal universe, one ineffably operating within the time-space-continuum. Tesla called this ether but just as easily could have labelled it spirit, which is innate within all objects, vibrating primordially, but still exists freely on it's own terms.

He might have used juju, had he been Nigerian or Haitian? Vodun cosmology attributes both good and bad juju (energies) contained in objects or within human intentions. Of itself, it is formless yet when taking form, it has specific qualities. My notion of spirit is wholly neutral, however, so I do not say that juju means the same thing as the spirit of a defined thing. That being said, people do use terms like good spirits and bad spirits to indicate supernatural occurrences. In such a light, spirit can have positive and negative attributes. Ultimately, I think that something spiritual is something immaterial and a state of being above or within everything else, while still maintaining its reality in mysterious detachment.

My silly belief is that awareness is the state of deep understanding, of observing in complete wakefulness. It's shadow twin is unawareness, just as consciousness has it's opposite in unconsciousness, light has it's polarity in darkness, etc. I myself, whoever I really am, often link them together as conscious-awareness because we can be aware of many many things that are observable in the phenomenal world which we all cohabitate within, together as a whole species of living human beings. Consciousness brings the miracle of awareness to another level of engagement or perhaps, of entanglement? Overall, I'd have to state that what is spiritual to my way of seeing things, is that which exists eternally within the effulgence of the clear light, pulsinv within the formless vacuum of true reality, the quintessence of the zero point field. Within the emerging human dynamic, I speculate that spiritual awareness is that force which has been awakened and so blooms free from the dream-bubble of one's own fragile mesmerism of finite separation from the source, The One.

I have on many occasions been consciously aware of the hidden spiritus within something or someone and it is beyond merely being observant, it is intuited without any iota of materially measured data, from a sixth sense, so to speak. One can be aware of danger or deceit in other human beings, as well as aware of kindness and loving intentions. Essentially, its felt in the vibe. Spiritual awareness, then, is the understanding of the seemingly unseen interconnection between all things. It is by necessity, born within higher mind and might well be described as supra-conscious awareness, as Sri Aurobindu used to call it. Awareness of spirit?

I was just reading this morning, a wee bit about the very old Indian religion of Jainism and it's non-use of the concept of a cosmological creator-sustainer-destroyer, almighty, omnipotent, eternal God. At least in terms of a higher, supreme, transcendent deity.

"However Jainism does believe in God, however, not as a creator, but as a perfect being. When a person destroys all his karmas, he becomes a liberated soul. He lives in a perfect blissful state in Moksha forever. The liberated soul possesses infinite knowledge, infinite vision, infinite power, and infinite bliss. This living being is then a God of the Jain religion."

Interesting, so such an idea has it's roots in human evolutionary growth. Theoretically, it takes lifetimes to cultivate... but at it's very appex, exists as a pure state of enlightenment or the elevated awareness of the indivisible nature of God and is the deepest degree of self. Ergo, Aham Brahmasmi or Atma is Brahman. This is what is also pointed towards in Zen Buddhism, although free from any self, when they elludes to remembering ones "original face". I equate this level of spiritual awakening with the culmination of conscious-awareness manifesting as the Godhead or as I have a penchant for calling this state of spiritual elevation, the awakening of the Omniself. In short, the universe observing itself through the manifestation of existence taking individual sentience. This then, is quite unlike the ancient Chinese idea of the eternal Tao, which is wholly non-anthropomorphic, immanent but entirely unbound. Perhaps it's really just a matter of perspective? It's certainly food for thought.

Namaskar, guys!

I think this captures a lot of my own thoughts. I see the definition of spiritual as "something that we are unable to measure with our senses and instruments."

My own theory of existence is quite simple, and follows from a scientifically aligned mind combined with mystical experiences. It's derived from quantum mechanics and eastern religions. I think there is a strong correlation between the two, and it's been explored in literature for ages.

Everything is a function of matter and energy.

There is no "further fact", soul, spirit or God.

Consciousness is a property of matter itself and is what binds everything together; the unseen connection.

A brain is not required for consciousness. Everything is conscious, but since each object has different "senses", the experience will differ. For example, the experience of being a rock is different from being a rabbit, even if the source of consciousness is the same. Still, a rock is able to have emotions and experiences, even if we are unable to understand them. Matter feels.

Our ability to experience reality is normally limited by our senses. Our senses are unable to perceive the full actual reality and acts as a filters, limiting what we can experience. Our inner lives, thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. are not measurable through traditional means. We can measure brain waves, but that doesn't explain how our experiences are actually experienced. You can't measure "sadness" or "connection to another person", but yet they exist.

We can go beyond our senses and experience a bigger swath of reality by using various techniques, such as meditation and psychedelics.

Other entities, like plants, display a range of responses depending on their experiences. They curl their leaf away from a hungry beetle, or share water and nutrients through their roots and mycelia with their friends. We may not see this as "consciousness", but I argue that it is and that it even extends to "non-living" objects.

So by looking at is from a pantheistic angle, you eliminate all questions around dualism, "do we have a soul that travels the universe when we smoke DMT?", "are humans special?".

It's all one soup and we all swim around in it. Our bodies and minds are just expressions of a greater whole, and we are as much created as we are creators. You may not be special, but you are a part of this amazing universe, with its myriad of expressions, and I can't think of a greater honor than that.

Spirituality is the authenticity and relationship you have with yourself. To be spiritual is not anything fancy or "out-there" its simply union with the natural or true self.