Whoa ! huge database of extraction info ! Thank YOU!

... one chemistry-afterthought - tell me if you know this to be possible, but I think that if chlorine gets added to an aromatic molecule like a tryptamine, then it ought to very-much change colour of the molecule.

I don't know if it's a visible-specturm change, but any halogen (ie bromine, chlorine as in dmt-chloride..) will add a bunch of 'loose' electrons that can spread out and 'share' orbits with the rest of the dmt-type molecule. So if this makes big colour changes happen in those alkaloids used in dye-making, maybe it's true for dmt/dmt-Cl too.?.

The fact of the matter is that Tryptamine itself, in pure form, is ORANGE. DMT, for whatever reason, in its freebase form, is white when recrystallized from hexanes. I suspect that orange coloring is due to the presence of Tryptamine and its other derivatives.

An interesting situation led to the creation of orange DMT.

A kitty cat (of this girl I know) left some alkaloidal heptane in an evaporation dish in front of a fan to reduce for freeze precipitation.

The reduction created a COLD reaction and made the pyrex evaporation baking dish become VERY cold and reduce so much that a thick layer of stuff precipitated out and stuck on the bottom of the dish underneath the very foggy remaining heptane.

The heptane was collected off and freeze precipitated to yield a VERY bright white ultra-crystalline powder.

The dish was left under a fan overnight and yielded a VERY large amount of BRIGHT orange waxy DMT. Looks like tang! The combination of moving air + reduction + cold must have separated the purer DMT from the other compounds.

The waxy orange DMT was re-crystallized to a powdery whitish light-orange DMT. Now I'm wishing the kitty would have saved some for me to try!

Anyways... heres a pic of the orange stuff...

Catch that kitty, grasshopper, quick ! and take your pipe !

Those are some very interesting looking crystals the kitty got. Any more information on her extracting conditions (a/b or STB, what solvent she used, etc) that might help shed some light on what made those tang-y crystals?

An A/B extraction was done using acetic acid.

The orange came out on the third pull.

The solvent used was heptane which was heated to a nice self-bubbling near-boil before being added into an extremely hot water-bathed extraction vessel.

After mixing + separation the heptane layer was removed and put onto a pyrex baking dish and set in front of a small high-powdered fan to reduce.

Due to some DMT smoking going on at the time it was left too long, over-reduced and precipitate began to form + stick all over the bottom of the big pyrex baking dish. At this point, not particularly orange.

The pyrex was VERY cold after the reduction, condensation forming on the outside of it.

The little bit of heptane left was VERY cloudy and was freeze-precipitated to yield about .5g of the whitest most shiny crystalline white powder that the kitty has ever seen out of an initial freeze precipitation.

The pyrex baking dish was left in front of the fan overnight to completely dry and in the morning 2.2g of DMTang was there for the scraping.

Well, I seem to recall someone else saying that acetic-acid solubilization producted orange crystals - or was it you plasmodesmata, already..?

This is excellent kitchen chemistry to figure out ! but I always wonder, why use so much heat...? ime heating is the way to get other stuff to become 'loose' into solution. also molecules will cross react more when you heat stuff up, promoting the formation of new alkaloid derivatives.

What does the orange 'tang' do to you..?

Wasn't me but I thought that acetic acid was the most common for A/B extractions that usually resulted in white + yellow DMT?

A room temperature pull is done for the first 1-2 pulls.

Sometimes the solvent is heated for the 2nd pull.

To increase yield the 3rd + 4th pulls are usually done with hot solvent + hot vessels.

The tang was all re-crystallized into a light orange powder... It wasn't until after this process begun that this thread was read. Bummer! Would have liked to do a trip comparison...

I like the idea of trying DMTang... perhaps I can get the kitty to extract a sample run and repeat the process and try to form it again for experimental purposes...

Hmmm... heat causing "new alkaloid derivatives"... if this is the case it would be extra interesting to smoke samples of tang created with this excessive heat...

'DMTang' ... a new technical term ! The last pull with hexane makes 'DMTang', you say....

Acetic acid is a 'weaker' acid, and so I guess heating a vinegar extract would help solubilize the tryptamines. I just let time and the pH do the work, aiming for pH 2.0

Also .. an unfinished thought/notion about using organic acids like acetic acid - doesn't some tek somewhere suggest to 'de-fat' in order to remove all organic molecules including the acetate molecule, as it is organic and partially soluble in some NP-solvents..?

I really want to smoke that stuff man, looks like it'll pack a fair punch!

In my experience (something i've been investigating for sometime now), colour leads to entities. What I mean is i've cleaned dmt to the whitest of white, comparable to lab quality RCs, and what I find is that this pure dmt provides a pure dmt experience, however there is no 'influence' to the trip which amounts to a lacking experience.

Leaving in the plant oils gives the plant spirits a presence in the experience

that's what i think anyway

I've always thought this myself... seems like a pure extraction strips the plant of its essence and just takes the primary mechanism of action, but not the whole machine.

I thought this because of my experience with Mescaline HCL vs whole alkaloidal extract... seems like a cactus sludge or alcohol tar provide a much more rounded and deep experience then whitish Mescaline powder.

Do you think ingesting Rue w/ white DMT provides guidance from the spirit of the Syrian Rue?

What are your experiential differences between a "pure" and "guided" DMT trip in terms of journey + entity contact?

IME with DMT I see MY spirits... my spirit guides, consistently seeing the ones who have always been there with me.

It seems like pure DMT might help connect me to Them and to my higher true self more directly and lucidly while colored DMT might provide a more "other worldy" journey? What are your thoughts on this?

Maybe swim shoul mix them and get the best of both hyperspace worlds ^^^

i'm a fan of yellow crystal / orange wax. they seem to be equally potent, if not more so imo. plus, why risk losing yield when the "dirty" works just fine?

I agree with pretty much everything you said Plasmod3smata

I think white dmt can be pointed in any direction. Brugmansia certainly takes you too a very particular place (funnily enough a place very similar to that I used to frequently end up in back in my sleep paralysis days)

If the spirit of Syrian Rue has something to say, then dmt can certainly give it the voice it needs to communicate.

I also keep seeing playful jester style entities when I put the dmt onto Pau d'Arco, I have no idea why. Pau d'Arco is an inactive tree, but a very positive one (used for natural curing of cancers plus other things) - there a good feeling surrounding this tree

With smoking the white crystal (usually mixed on calea which added not much in my opinion), I wouldn't say I connected with my related spirits. Pretty much every time there was no entity contact, just futurisitic rooms, space, etc.. once again back in the sleep paralysis days, every time the same entities would be there and I knew everytime exactly who they were. Three of them: hunchback man-wolf, angry old lady, big dark evil fucker.. anyway that's off topic, but they are the spirits that have some kind of attachment to me (and have for a long time) - it would be interesting if i could find a way to meet them using dmt

Are you familiar with ritual magick? There's all sorts of ways to summon/invoke entities... combining ceremonial methods with tryptamines can yield some interesting results.

It's funny you mention sleep paralysis... just yesterday a friend of mine told me how he got sleep paralysis constantly at a house he lived at that was haunted (he hardly ever got it elsewhere, and then too it was in the presence of a haunted tibetan bowl). He said there were always entites standing over him when he woke up unable to move.

It's my understanding that sleep paralysis, physiologically, is the result of the inhibiting mechanisms in place during sleep to keep you from sleepwalking somehow remaining active when you wake up. This most likely involves acetylcholine (ACh) antagonism. Acetylcholine antagonists are known hallucinogens/deleriants (the medical term for things that provide access to spirit realms). The drug BZ that was tested by the US govt on US soldiers was an ACh antagonist, the movie Jakob's Ladder was loosely based on this. Cf. also Zoe7's experiments with sleep dep and benadryl, which is another ACh antagonist. Apparently it's quite a trip, perhaps something like this could be used as a focus, aka a mnemonic device you could consciously use to activate the frame of mind you were in when you contacted those entities, but this time while conscious and with use of the d? Who knows, it's so crazy it might work... but I'd recommend a plant source for the ACh antag, even though that means going with one of the tropane bearing species probly. Actually, I wouldn't -recommend- that to anybody, but it seems like it'd be the way to do it, if you really wanted to meet hunchback man-wolf, angry old lady, big dark evil fucker in hyperspace that badly. But I see you know Brugmansia so perhaps this is an option for you?



Ok, to answer both these questions: hell yeah, and HELL YEAH! Rue definately has its own spirit to lend, and Swim's noticed that impurer rue extracts (more oils), while giving a "harsher" purge, definately lends more of its spirit as well. This seems true with all plants. Eating cactus or rue or morning glory straight up, while harsh, gives direct face to face contact with the plant spirit full on. Something you only wanna do once, with plants you really wanna get to know. Don't even try it with mimosa, one of Ott's group got sick from this. As for entity contact, yeah, the white gives the same hyperdimensional omnipresent higher-order ally-type entities, whereas the red is most definately corporeal entity contact, to the point of allowing them to manifest in this reality.

Red "jungle spice," meaning orange spice that which has been pulled from mimosa base soup with toluene or xylene after it has been exhausted with heptane or pet ether, and then further washed with heptane to pull more white out, leaving only a dark red or brown... is likely degredation products of yuremamine, the other alkaloid isolated by Callaway. Plus some plant oils, which surely lend their own essence. (there's a number of reasons to get orange spice, it can be degredation of white apparently though this must take quite a while indeed... or it can be plant oils... or it can be other alkaloids... or all of the above. But only toluene/xylene pulled orange can be refined to red, which is sometimes brown or something) It has a "lower frequency" infrared spectrum vibe copmpared to the "ultraviolet" high frequency vibe of white. If, as Bill Hicks observed, matter is energy condensed to a slow vibration, then something like that is at work here as well. This molecule is larger, vibrates slower, and lets the energy solidify somewhat, producing more corporeal, manifest entities.

Looking at Callaway's proposed structure of yuremamine, it's basically a tannin bonded to a dmt molecule. The addition of a tannin (which mimosa is rich in) could make the molecule vibrate at a lower frequency, giving it a more "globular" feel when it's wobbling around in your receptors, compared to the ringing buzz of a free dmt molecule. Even though they're both binding at the same point in the molecule, the additional weight of a YDP (yuremamine degredation product) molecule compared to a free n-n molecule could accound for a trip closer on the tree to malkuth, compared to the ride striaght to kether that white n-n provides.