Yes, Orthodox Christianity has its roots in neo-platonism. Dionysius the Areopagite have laid ground for the Mystical Theology, e.g. Theoria, the divine energies and the unknowability of God. While Gregory Palamas’ “The Philokalia of the Neptic Saints gathered from our Holy Theophoric Father, through which, by means of the philosophy of ascetic practice and contemplation, the intellect is purified, illumined, and made perfect.” put into words the practice of hesychasm: the process of retiring inward by ceasing to register the senses, in order to achieve an experiential knowledge of God. The hesychasm goes beyond words, really: I myself go every year to the Optina Monastery for 2-3 weeks to practice it.

Sounds like a cult to me.

Oh, but it's not NEW, so it must be okay.

Add two thousand years of philosophy, and it might develop into something respectable.

I’m not a Muslim, but Islam has a record of some of the greatest philosophers in history behind it. It’s got something going for it that I can respect. So, I have a respectful disagreement with Muslim theologians, which is largely outweighed by a whole lot of jovial agreement. She doesn’t earn that. The case is similar with Mormons. They haven’t done anything to earn a respectful disagreement.

As I said before: if you think her claims are worth taking seriously, look into Christian theology. If you haven’t done that, then you have to ask yourself what basis you have for evaluating her claims.

It is a big and common claim to say you speak for Jesus. Lucky you that you found the person among all the other frauds who really does it!

House on sand, dude.

Jeshua and his teachings are oft misunderstood and misinterpreted, and I believe that the case of your incredulity is no exception.

But I have no intention of convincing anyone here of anything, nor a desire to. My house on sand is a nomadic tent. I ain't gonna stay or argue.

I put this encouraging piece of writing here because I thought it might find some people who resonated with it, like me. Either it resonates or it doesn't. There is no stack of papers proving it because channeling and the messages are unprovable, just like you can't prove a poem.

Do you know who said that bit about houses on sand?

I do now! : P

Hard to misunderstand or misinterpret a teaching if you never read it. Clever.

I laughed out loud. Thats a really funny and acurate way of putting it, dude



Not to add insult to injury, as I dont have a good time disagreeing with you at all Rhythm Spring, I wish you dont get offended because I don't like this whole channeling stuff.

But I was deeply unsettled by this quote by the leader of this movement:



As a reader and lover of words for the sake of words this text truly unsettled me. I'm very sorry if I offend anyone because of this observation, but I felt as if the person who wrote this probably had pschizofrenia. Its very very weird. The choice and order of words, the tone and pace of narrative, and the lack of a point, as if the text isnt going anywhere, totally vacuous.

BUT english is not her first language. Pamela Kribbe is dutch, that means she is from the Netherlands (mmm...legal psychedelics!) so we have to give her the benefit of the doubt that maybe she isn't mentally unstable (again, forgive my way of putting what I felt), but rather her language and narrative voice is weak because she does not know the english language.

Pamela Kribbe has 10 books on sale, all self published, meaning she writes and prints and sells them on amazon herself. Her website, the place where she sells the books, is designed in 20 languages. The translations are very good--so its obvious she hires good translators, and a lot of them.

I read the autobiography she wrote on her site. It deeply usettled me.

Its very hard to read.

The prose has no rythm to it, she has a very small vocabulary, and no point or meaning either, and her ideas and how she sees the world and what she thinks is normal seem very off.

In this part around the 2000 word mark she goes on to explain how she met her husband:




DUDE. WHAT THE FUCK. She got pregnant by this guy like only four months after meeting him in person! after only having known him three months through email.

And she channels spirits. As in...



but the story of how she discovered these things is very unconvincing. Basically she read gurus and books on channeling and sudenly obtained the powers herself.

In my opinion, in her autobiography she comes off as totally unvirtuous.

She actually has very little going on in her life or in her mind beside her weird and failed romantic relationships (with an old teacher when she was 23 with whom she moved into his house, and then all spiritual guys or chanellers. Generally she dumps one and goes to another. She always says that she thought she was happy with them, which is kind of weird to say. When I think back on my girlfriends I know I was happy with them.


Anyway, Gerrit, her husband, manages her website because he is a web desinger.

After all, thats how she met him; he was a woo-woo power, channeling session guy and had his own website.

At the end of her autobiography she has a part titled Channeling – a bit of debunking which gives the idea that she is going to refute some common oppinions against the validity of chanelling...yeah, but no, she does no such thing.



And in this manner she just goes on explaining about what she thinks channeling is, never actually debunking anything and never giving concrete information on how she does it either.

In fact, her explanation of how she channels reads very phony--not really how these mystical or near death experiences happen.

It really seems like she has no mystical knowledge.



Have I wasted a lot of valuble time reading into this vacuous stuff?

YES, but I actually enjoy uncovering the truth of things so its OK.


Just half an hour ago I was getting a little into hyperspace through one point focus with open eyes meditation. I love the source of creation.

I would love if she actually discovered something real to connect with our ancestors or the source of creation, or hyperspace, but she doesn't. She just makes weird stuff up.

But the reality of what hyperspace is, the beauty of the circle of life, of the dimensions beyond this one...the real thing is so much more beautiful and UNBELIEVABLE and impossible (if you get what I mean) than all this nonsense.

Its why we say that truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyway this isnt a cult I think, its actually just a quick scam as she only makes money off the books--as many people do. She has commited no crime I believe, so shes not a leader of a cult, just a fiction writer

I really don't understand why you are unsettled. It is a description of the usual character of fearful thoughts. We all have them. The "voice of fear" doesn't mean that one is hearing voices--it's just a way of saying a train of thought. And to me the pace and narrative is completely normal. The point is to give you a hand in beginning to identify fearful thoughts in your mind if you are truly at a loss and in the fog. It's not vacuous to me. Does that make me strange? I'm sorry that it reminds you of schizophrenia--perhaps it evokes a fear reaction in you to anything related to it. To me this kind of writing seems to be quite similar to both the message and style of writing of Eckart Tolle. He talks a lot about clearing the mind of fearful, jerky thoughts. Is he a quack? A cult leader? Because he writes books based on spiritual and psychological insight and sells them? Give me a break.



You're really criticizing her on her small vocabulary? That's why we should be unsettled? Come on. If she had written in Spanish, the vocabulary would have been just as small, if not smaller. And indeed, she did originally write in Dutch, which doesn't have as many words as English.



I'm really surprised to find such disdain for cultural or personal romantic differences on a site full of people open enough to do psychedelics. You're making a big deal over something that isn't. I'm sorry that the speed of her falling in love scares you. I'll chalk it up to your personal experiences.


...and her doctorate in philosophy. Also, the bio is probably geared toward revealing only what is relevant to the Jeshua site. Maybe she didn't include her hobbies or other jobs because, as she said, she is normally a shy person.



Yeah, you tell yourself that.



Who are you to decide what is mystical knowledge and what isn't? Sure, maybe some DMT trips have given you a glimpse of the source of creation. Maybe she has had some experiences, too, via other means (or perhaps the same means, you never know!) that are equally mystical.

Just because you have your own concept of what is a valid mystical experience does not mean that people who have different sorts of mystical experiences are quacks, liars, or fucked up. That line of thinking is actually very dangerous and is what lead to Jesus being persecuted in the first place, not to mention millions of people after that, who deviated from what was culturally decided as valid. Witches were burned. Jews were burned. And although I'm sure you have no violent intentions (I sure hope not, anyway), the line of thinking in which you fall is with those who burned witches. No matter how read-up or smoked-up you are on your mystical knowledge, your sentiments are just as grotesque, if not more so, as what you perceive as this "fiction writer," because they contain charged judgments of another based on their spiritual path.

...Especially since your criticism of this author is quite vacuous in itself. You're unsettled by cultural differences, diction preferences, and your own mystical arrogance.

I see I offended you.

You call me arrogant for sharing my feelings, but I never called you dumb for believing in this...I dont think you are dumb for believing in this. I dont think I am arrogant because I question it.

I never praised myself, where does my arrogance lie?

My feeling that the text is weird is because



Which is like the most obvious come back on Earth.

You compare her prose to Tolle, but it is nothing like it.

No, Tolle is not a quack =) Even though Tolle himself is not an amazing writer by any stretch of the imagination (you have to understand real writers practice a lot and have like a fifty 300,000 word novels written, so skill can actually be verified by the level of practice as well, not my "arrogance) it is actually well structured and had a point.



Nothing Pamela wrote which I read even slightly resembles this level of understanding of sentence structure and having a point and a sense of authenticity.

You know what, I do have the right to state my oppinion about mysticism, cause I had the balls to do something most people arent willing to.

I talked to someone who's into all this channeling stuff today. She doesnt want to try Ayahuasca. She is afraid of seeing something she wouldn't like to see--those were her own words.

So yes, I will give myself the validation, because I certainly wont get validation from you =) My oppinion is worthy. I've seen and felt things that are unexplainable and magic. Andreal recognizes real

Here



Again, you frame it like I say everyone who has mystical experiences is a quack when I stated that I read and listen to mystical experiences and belive in them, just not this one!

Sorry I cant fit into what you want me to be, a person who doesnt believe in magic. I believe in the divine nature of reality and many people's mystical experiences, just not this particularly story, for obvious reasons.

You also compare my feeling on this as prosecuting Pamella Kribbe just like Jesus was prosecuted...I didn't say anything mean other that the truth of my observations and certainly didnt ask that she be burned at the cross, wtf dude, why such the big leap Are you trying to make me into a bad person?


Besides:



Seems like what she practices is more in line with the death of innocents and just in general unflattering stuff.

Its a little unfair that your defense of this stuff is that I am close minded and arrogant, while again not actually offering any knowledge on how channeling is done and how it actually works, its history, and why we should believe in its veracity.

I talked to a woman about this today and she said that they use hypnosis and that everyone regresses and starts seeing visuals and see their past lives and then channel the 'teachers.' They do all this in just half an hour, with no previous meditation practice.

Naturally they were charged to get in to this type of event and everyone who went already believed in this channeling stuff, so yeah...

But how strange right? In 30 minutes you can have amazing visuals, and yet we who fucking LOVE having visuals dont know about this stuff? Is it maybe that we dont know about it because it DOESNT WORK?



And yeah, its sort of not normal to get pregnant with someone you've known four months, even if you are in love.

Please dont frame the world as if I am judgmental, its actually not normal, just like drinking frozen milk is not a normal thing--im not judging the one off person who does, its just actually not really normal, and Im stated the obvious.

Here is how a random woman reacts to the same circumstances: =After 4 Months of Dating I'm Pregnant & I Barley Know Him





Wow, passive agressive much? Where is the cosmic love, huh? =) No more kindness when I disagree with something you believe in?




Wow, thanks for not listening to my feelings at all. I said that A LOT of things unsettled me, not her mere vocabulary. How conveniant OF you to re-frame what I said.

Sorry we can't be friends and kind to eachother anymore cause I can't accept what this woman and other 'channelers' want me to =) apparently, your frienship really isnt valuable anyway.



Wow, thats a very non-emotional response full of clear points and reasoning =) NOT.


Sorry that you feel that way,
the only thing there is to say
every silver linings got a
touch of grey

This has turned into a lot of misconstruing. "I'm not offended, YOUR offended!" Let's stop.

My only request is that we state our opinions without attacking the other side or calling names, or anything similarly rude such as saying "what the fuck" and pointing a finger.

I'm sorry I re-started this mess by jokingly calling Orthodox Christianity a cult. My bad.

Is it too much to ask to state our opinions without denigrating what we don't buy?

I don't really want to get into the mechanics of whether this channeling stuff is BS or not but your comments about failed relationships and getting pregnant by Gerrit after four months are completely irrelevant with regard to any attempt to debunk Pamela Kribbs. From what i read she has been working with the dude since 2002. That is a minimum of 17 years together. Which points to some kind of solid relationship. And to be honest, if she was genuine, i can't see any correlation between how bad she is in relationships and her supernatural capabilities.



If the above comment was in a religious argument, it would translate to me as "my god is better than your god". When the reality is more than likely that you have experienced some weird and wonderful things after having taken drugs. And it is no more relevant in the grand scheme of things than Pamela Kribbs' channeling BS.


Efficient debunking requires critical thinking and logic accompanied by minimal character assasination. You are letting the side down mate.

Wait hug46, Pamela isn't gonna read this thread. Who's feeling could be hurt with my observations?

I'm not assasinating her character by talking about her here in this small tiny thread no one will read.

I feel a detective would have looked at that piece of information.

Generally too intense relationships like that, they constantly reinforce their own ideas, along with some isolation...it paints a picture about whats going on mentally. I can have my supsicions, hug46.

I could be wrong, obviously, but if someone agrees with me, if a person who has been duped by one of these channelers or the likes comes and reads me, my words will aid them; Not all of us fall for it. And some of us tell it like it is...or certainly try to, within one's limited capacity.

I certainly dont wish to avert my gaze to stuff which calls my attention. I'm an amateur debunker, and learning...definitley not a pro.

I like this thread. I had this attitude towards all kinds of religions and cults - I really used to hate them all, but now I think that everything has its place. Just as there are clever things, there have to be stupid things, where is light there must be also darkness, and so on - I think we all can agree that this is universal law of how things work.

Yes there are practices and cults which seem to be suspicious and exploiting their members. But it's each individual's own quest to live their life as they want to. You can't change their opinions no matter how hard and logically you argue with them, in the end it will all boil down to "I want it my way no matter how logically you explain to me that my beliefs are shit".
If somebody is deluded, lured into a cult there is not much you can do for them, but to offer them love and guidance, only when they come back to you for it.

My point is - if something makes someone happy, no matter how silly it sounds, and it doesn't directly affect you or your life, then why not just let them be at it. Hating them just spawns more hate which spawns more hate and so on.
Whatever is going behind the curtains of our universe, I have feeling that it is MUCH more complicated and uncomprehensible in human way of thinking, than all of religious/spiritual dogmas and texts and scientific teachings combined.

Yes you can have your suspicions and i am pointing out that you need to work a bit harder on explaining as to why you have them. My gripe is not about whether anyone's feelings will get hurt. It is more that you are speculating as why she is a fake based on things like how well she articulates in written English and that she got pregnant by someone in 2001, who she is still with 18 years later, implying that this is a failed relationship because she got pregnant too early. For me, these kinds of arguments hold no water when it comes to debunking the veracity of her claims....

Nope, based on how she articulates things in her own language, because she has translators. So how she is writing is actually how she writes. For a PhD in Philosophy, her writing is terrible. Can't see how my criticism of her writing holds no water when her profession is being a WRITER.




I didn't imply people who get pregnant too early have failed relationships. All I said is that how they met is not normal.

It isn't everyday a woman falls in love through email with a channeler who has a website.

I'm glad you aren't the head of a police department, or detective, cause if that doesnt call your attention, you aren't looking with a sharp eye.



Now there is thing thing with the youtuber Onision, who was alledgedly grooming teenage girls through his youtube channel. Now Chris Hanson is looking at the case and making interviews.

For years I knew that the guy was insane and up to no good, just based on how he talked and his insane eyes.

Do I have predjudices like this with everyone?

Nope.

Only with one more person.

Jeffrey Epstein, who I have been looking into for more than 4 years, long before most people knew about him. (He had already been convicted by then though, its not like I magically knew about him)

So I trust my intuition.

Do I think I should share my intution with people?

Only with trusted friends. But you discover who those are through tests, trials and errors.

In any case, those were points, not my biggest claim. My biggest claim is channeling is fake.

Whether she writes well, or not. Or has good or bad translators does not point towards or away from her being a fake.



Millions of people hook up via the internet.There has to be a more compelling argument against than her getting together with someone with the same interests through the internet...



If i was head of a police department i would try to base my arguments on evidence rather than subjective supposition.

Personally i dont buy the channeling thing but comments such as the one below are hypocritical. How can you say that she is talking nonsense when you make blanket statements about what is real based on your experiences while under the influence of a drug?

Its not a blank statement cause if anyone, anywhere, and and at anytime, wants to see magic; we can show it to them.

Its just three tokes away.

Free of charge, too!

How can I be hypocritical? That would mean I am doing the same thing as her.

I am not hording the magic.

I am not starting a website in order to make people come to me

I am not making a living selling books with fake acounts passed off as true, preying on people's low education and need to believe in something greater.

I am and was sober when doing that one-pointed meditation, and its a little hard, but nothing really crazy, its just a technique where you have to be really still and keep your eyes open.

But if you mean that I take my DMT experiences as real knowledge...

yes, I do =)

One might feel safe and secure in the definition of DMT being a mere 'drug' (that is what is implied, a 'mere drug,' as in just like caffeine or nicotine, meth or heroin.)

But I am not sure about that definition of the DMT flash.

I never made blanket statements about 'reality' as a whole. Thats very big and complex. I am just talking about what is possible in the psychic realm. If they can prove channeling, then I will admit that as possible into the psychic realm. But they cant and they dont. In fact, all you get from questioning it is defensiveness...a bad sign when looking for honesty or truth

I can live with that. A far more credible argument for someone being a charlatan than thinking that they have a weird love life.
In relation to the hypocracy comment, maybe i was a bit hard but i think that you have to entertain the idea that this lady might have the same convictions in her beliefs as you do in your DMT experiences.

I think I see where you are coming from. I often times can be very crude and unhinged because I am a very intense person--I think intense might be the best word to describe me.

I am and will consider what you are saying through introspection to fully grasp it.

I certainly know that I say the dumbest shit at times, so please do poke at what might be my vices or mistakes; I am not infallible, of course.

Sorry if I caused any tension with my words--I hope to correct the blunt aspects of my speech or thinking.