Although I read a lot about DMT, I did not find any experience report on smoking DMT fumarate. I read that "it doesn't work" or "it's a waste of material", but no report on the used quantites / qualities were mentioned in these writings.

SWIM had some freebase and he don't smoke often, so wanted his DMT in a safe form that does not degrade easily. He done a simple fumarate conversion with anhydrous acetone / FASA, wich resulted in pale yellow needle like fumarate crystals.

He also was eager to try smoking fumarate, so he scraped a tiny amount of dry crystalline material (about 10mg) from his Erlenmeyer flask's wall. He took a piece of aluminium foil and a straw. He heated the foil with a lighter. The fumarate salt firts melted, and begun to boil. He inhaled the fumes with the straw in his mouth. The smoke was easy to inhale, there were no significant irritation. The effects were felt immediately, shortly after he entered a calm, meditative state.

If you have experience with smoking fumarate (or any other salt) please write a report.

Intresting, did it feel like smoking the freebase, i.e where effects similar or completey differnt? Be carefull lighting foil as it could cause brain damage.

R&R
L

I'll have to throw some in the vaprogenie and see whats up. freebase DMT has a lower boiling point so its easier to vaporize. if the proper temp for vaping the fumarate is obatainable.... I wouldn't think that fumaric acid vapors could be too bad for you. (Especially if you didn't find the vapors harsh) HCL salts may be a different story though.

all speculation here, I will attempt to vape fumarates next time I'm in place that allows that sort of thing

According to wikipedia, fumaric acid is converted to maleic anhydride upon partial combustion. Maleic anhydride is an irritant, is corrosive, and has a fire diamond health rating of 3 meaning "Short exposure could cause serious temporary or moderate residual injury (e.g., chlorine gas)". I wouldn't risk it myself, but all I know is what wikipedia tells me, I could be over-reacting, but I always like to be careful when inhaling acid vapors

Ha!

I've smoked DMT fumerate on a few occasions now, but didn't make much of a habit of it because it's a much more difficult and far inferior smoke. With freebase all I need to do is count to 10, then when I breathe out, all that comes out is breath and no clouds. With DMT fumerate I got counts up to 20 and still there were thick loads of smoke coming out. It just doesn't cool down anywhere near quick enough to deliver an intense enough hit. It will do the job, but nowhere near as efficently as freebase.

We freebase this stuff for a reason.

Thank you for the warnin narmz! There were only a small amount of substance, and the first hit was taken carefully. Only the usual DMT-ish throat and tounge irritation was felt. Once SWIM accidently inhaled some chlorine and it was a very different experience.

Howerever we should be careful with this stuff. SWIM only tried vaporization. Leaf-bed or similar higher temperature methods were not tried. These methods may cause problems if enaugh maleic anhydride forms.

It has to do with the fact that Fumarate is an acid(low pH)...Freebase is a base(high pH).
There is a slight molecular change that happens when salting, that physically changes the properties & characteristics of the alkaloid.

Acids tend to burn when directly heated & they produce an almost ineffective smoke (not vapor), because the molecule is burnt up in the process.

Freebase is used for inhalation because the base chemical will vaporize with the molecule still intact (if heated correctly) making it not only much more potent, but also cooler & smoother, since the vaporization temp of freebase-DMT is lower than the combustion temp of DMT-Fumarate.


DMT-Fumarate is usually used for oral (or, eaten) DMT dosing with an MAOI (it can also be snorted), once again because of the pH!
The pH of your stomach is acidic...If I remember correctly, around 6-7pH....roughly the same pH as DMT-Fumarate.
Making it easier for your stomach to accept & absorb the alkaloids efficiently, with the least amount side effects.

Using Freebase-DMT orally, tends to take longer to kick in & can sometimes be weaker, since your stomach acids have to convert the Frebase-DMT to an acid for proper absorption anyway.
(mix your FB-DMT into some orange juice before drinking it down, to help your stomach with this conversion process)
Also, eating straight Freebase-DMT can even be painful to the gut, especially if you take too much & also depending a lot on your own individual body chemistry.

Not that it won't work to smoke DMT-Fumarate, but it is not going to be as reliable, or nearly as pleasant.

Someone more familiar with organic chemistry & the body could probably explain the how & why of all this, much better then myself though.
So please elaborate & correct me if you guys have additional info.


BTW, This is also the difference between regular cocaine & "crack"-cocaine.
Regular coke is an acid, & people snort, shoot & even sometimes eat it.
But smoking regular coke doesn't work very well, because it's an acid & burns up most of the active alkaloid(s) before you can inhale them. (same with smoking DMT-Fumarate)

"Crack" however, is just basified cocaine...Freebase-coke...which as we all know (thanks Nancy Reagan ), is efficiently vaporized & much like Freebase-DMT, provides an almost instant effect, that is much more powerful, albeit much shorter in duration, than the effects of the acidic version, when eaten or snorted.


Hope that helps shed a 'lil light...maybe you already knew all this though.....



Cheers,
WS

Thank you for the info WSaged. However, DMT-fumarate seems to evaporate very well, or at least breaks down and produce DMT freebase vapor. SWIM tried it, it works: when DMT fumarate heated, it produces highly psychoactive vapor.

Question is: are there any significant drawbacks of smoking the fumarate salt? The answer is so far, that it's might be less effective (I haven't heard a single precise experience report with quantities measured) and that burning fumarate salt might produce maleic anhydride that may cause severe respiratory complications according to maleic anhydride safety data.

Since there are several easy and fast fumarate-to-freebase conversion teks, I think it's not worth the risk of having a pulmonary oedema.

and have now been set straight.... thank you nexus for such prompt guidance.

Exactly, fumarate to freebase conversion can take as little as an hour using certain methods or at least less than a week using more standard methods.

Wow, thanks! I was thinkig if such a simple conversion is possible. Note that after this conversion there are still Na fumarate in the product. Pure DMT freebase can be obtained with naphta wash and evaporation.

SWIM really doesn't think sodium fumarate is much to worry about at all, especially since it's quite soluble in water and isn't likely to remain in product, except in negligible trace amounts. It also isn't likely to vaporize and is probably quite inert. SWIM'd be more worried about naphtha than sodium fumarate. In short, a naphtha wash is completely unnecessary unless you simply want to isolate the DMT from jungle spice, and even then, SWIM would recommend warm heptane as an alternative.

So swim had an interesting experience the other night, he took 200 mg harmalas and 40mg dmt fumerate. He wasnt close to where he wanted to be, so he loaded 100mg dmt fumerate into the VG (He meant to load freebase). There were slight visuals, but it was the auditory hallucinations that were intense. One of the visions was of a young asian girl looking at swim, smiling and laughing, but he actually heard the laughing. Now sometimes swim gets auditory hallucinations but they never seemed to match up quite like that and were never quite so clear. There was some other visions with audio included but thats the one swim remembers.

But what really got swim was when the visions stopped completely, turned into static, and his mind started tuning in to some alien frequency. It started with a crazy cracking sound in his eardrums that he also felt, it was actually making him uncomfortable, but when the music started, he forgot about everything else. It started with a note, which put a picture of a glowing plant into swims head. one by one more and more instruments joined in, some sort of instrument that sounded like a guitar but was different. and many flute and wind sounding instruments. It was amazing and definately was an amazing experience.
He started coming out of it so he took a nice big hit, but this time was different, his breathing sped up like crazy. There was visuals to go along with the breathing, they were patterns that alternated with each in/out breath. His breathing was crazy and so was the pulsing of the pattern. The pattern itself wasnt very impressive, complex or beautiful. He also felt like his brain had turned into a mushy fog and thought he'd poisoned himself, thinking he didnt let it dry enough or something and smoked solvent.... so he ran to the bottle to find it was the fumerate ;/ stupid mistake, beautiful time...