I know Maoi's such are Rue, Caapi and Passionflower really pack a punch to an LSD experience.

How about with LSA?

Would the vascoconstriction become more dangerous?

Anyone ever bother to try this?

I am very curious, and might try it if I can find a good deal on a couple HBWR seeds. Smoke a little Caapi two hours after sublingual admin of crude LSA extract to test the waters.

Well the MAOI present in San Pedro cactus greatly potentiates the effects of LSA/LSH. We're talking about 5-10 times stronger. SWIM has tried it with the mescaline removed, and the effects are phenomenal. Stronger visual effects, and instead of peaking after about 3-4 hours, it peaks after about 90 minutes. It totally changes the ride, but still feels like LSA/LSH. That’s a 4 star combination (with the mescaline removed).

SWIM has not played around too much with other MAOIs and LSA/LSH though. I think probably THH would be the best MAOI for LSA/LSH other than what’s in the San Pedro cactus. I say this because THH at high doses has an LSD-like feel.

Thanks for the information ron, as always I appreciate your posts and the information you have found.

I didn't realize san pedro had MAOI's inside of it, but this explains why combinations involving cacti and other tryptamines seem so much stronger.

I am not all that seasoned with cacti, how would a low dose of san pedro do? If say someone ate maybe 15-20 grams of dried flesh just to potentiate and synergize? Not necessarily to have the best of both worlds(miss calin & lisa). I find a lot of active combinations to be a little confusing, and sometimes over-whelming. I could see these two being good friends however.

if I end up getting some cash by christmass time I will certainly try a MAOI and LSA combination and report back. If anyone ends up trying anything like this in the mean-time, I'd love to hear the results.

I find LSA to be quiet powerful as it is. Even at say a 7-9 HBWR seeds dosage. Vascoconstriction is my main complaint.

But LSA's OEV's in my experience are kind of lacking compared to the body-load it brings on. Maybe this is the golden ticket to natural 'LSD', or maybe it will merely make the introspection and CEV beauties to be all the more bewildering. Only experimentation can tell at this point.

I'm just surprised this isn't talked about more frequently.

Can’t really say. SWIM only used the extracted alkaloids. He doesn’t play around with non-extracted cacti, not even resin. He finds the potency varies so much that it’s next to impossible to judge how much to use. That’s why he extracts the alkaloids so he can get a clearer idea of the potency.




THH should help clear up the vasoconstriction. But don’t take a large dose. This combination is not very common. No one knows the maximum safe dose.



I would recommend the extracted MAOIs in San Pedro over THH for this case. It’s better with the mescaline removed, because the LSA just sort of overpowers the mescaline. It’s better to use your mescaline on its own, SWIM thinks.

At some point SWIM will try a good dose of THH with LSA/LSH. He’s tried up to 350 mg of THH orally and found it was very LSD-like, but unpleasant at that dose on it’s own. THH is better at 300 mg or below. LSA/LSH are also better at low doses than at high doses.

As far as safety goes, I believe using 3 Datura stramonium seeds with LSA/LSH is safer than using an MAOI with LSA/LSH. Such a tiny dose of Datura stramonium seeds does nothing on its own, but will greatly enhance the visual effects of LSA/LSH and help decrease their side effects.

I've taken a low-to-moderate dose of caapi with 6 HBWR seeds.

I took the caapi tincture sublingually. The HBWR seeds were taken as tea, I think. I can't remember which I took first, but it was one after the other.

I was having a mild, warping kinda of trip to begin with, until I turned my attention inward to my energy centers. After some working my heart centers blew right open and the Love Bliss Light enveloped my being and I understood that 'this is what it is'..'I want to give/show this to everyone'..'everyone needs this'..'this is the lesson of this world'...you get the idea. After coming out of this state, I for the first time understood what Grace is. There is actually an awareness, a state, that IS Grace.

I did feel moderately poisoned from the seeds, but I was also dealing with intestinal/toxicity issues during that time. A healthy person would likely not have had this problem. I don't remember experiencing much in the way vasoconstriction. I was laying down the entire time though. It was rather sedating.

A light dose, cold water infusion of gotu kola would relieve any vasoconstriction. I think the harmalas have vasodilating effects in their own right though, so... caution.

Gotu kola cold water infusion: Soak 1 tsp. in 6-8oz. of room-temp water for 7-8 hours, and then strain. Take the harmalas and the HBWR, however you intend to take them, and then if during the trip you begin to experience constriction, sip on the gotu kola tea until the constriction subsides. Gotu kola works in a similar way to Gingko biloba, in that it relaxes and dilates the blood vessels, allowing freer circulation... promoting increased circulation.

Wow dimitrus! I understand the passion and grace you speak of. I also have had that with LSA but I am sure your experience was far more magnified. I often feel very poetic while being lulled into the half-coma of the LSA experience. I write poetry 'aloud' in my head, or draw in my CEVS, until the end of the experience. Now though I am very, very curious about this combination.

Here is what I think I will do:

I think I will take 3 seeds of HBWR and smoke some caapi(I am very sensitive to maois) until it feels right. Test the waters. I think smoked is a good method for testing the waters because if it is too much it won't be active for too long. If it is too little, then I will know the next time.

If it seems worthy of repeating and it seems safe, then a week later(tolerance and recovery) I will try 4-5 seeds with caapi again.

Either way I will report back to the nexus with my findings!

If only I could give the Cosmic Bliss Love to you. Man...you just have nooo idea. Awww man.

I'd advise everyone to explore the chest region, around the sternum and thymus.. actually FEELING for the 'place'. It is there. I assure you. Call it what you want, it's there. Go for it. Especially easy to hit upon under psychedelic sensitivity. If you hit it, well...Bliss overtaketh and you will know, and it will be available for tapping into whenever from then on.



I would agree. You got it.

I know this thread is old but it interests me and I want to hear more considering amides are not processed by MAO

SWIM has tried 7 HQ HBWR (comparable to 13-15 of the Hawaiian from FV) with 3.5 g syrian rue brew and it really didn't synergize to well. In retrospect two highly sedating alkaloids wouldn't be expected to work too well. for a bit SWIM's eyes could barely focus and his mind had the capacity of a 3-4 year old. although SWIM has never gotten OEV from HBWR, only CEVs, the CEVs were not potentiate by the rue.

SWIM has some morning glories and is planning to extract them and try with maybe THH or his new founded curcumin (turmeric extract) with some kola nut. in SWIM opinion kola COMPLETELY changes the LSA experience.

I'm not familiar with high doses of LSA, the most was I've had is 8 HBWR seeds by themselves, so I can't compare the experience below to a strong LSA trip - just recount the effects in general.

I find doses of even 3-4 seeds uncomfortable: odd breathing, zoning out, chaotic thought processes... These things are not difficult in themselves, but the LSA lens through which all those are experienced is just not my bag.

Before trying this mixture, I read all the experience reports I could find on it. Some were positive. Passing out is not uncommon.

++
5 HBWR seeds with 3g syrian rue were consumed. Within an hour I passed out propped on my side and had some strange dreams with very little recollection. Waking up 4-5 hours later, I felt renewed and confused.

There was a strong desire to purge, and the sounds of heaving were very distorted. Some part of me said everything was absorbed already and I should focus on short breaths to keep the stomach contractions at bay.

No classic 'visuals', but definite visual effects were present. When I looked at the ceiling, it felt like my face was on and in it. My open eye visual screen was choppy, like someone had taken a painting and folded parts of it away. Think of normally seeing 'left-middle-right' and I was seeing 'left-right', with the middle just folded out of view. However, it was happening with overlaying shapes making a tunnel (looking down a tunnel of overlaying squares and diamonds), folding things away in their edges.

I have never done yoga, but there were thoughts of it being similar to some yogic states. Also a voice told me many times, "remember your training" which helped me cope with the experience quite a bit. I have had no 'training', so this is pretty amusing.

The sickness and effects subsided slowly over the following day. For the next two or three days, my brain was very foggy and had trouble calling up appropriate words or simple facts. I was mentally 'slow' and did not like it one bit.
++

Though LSA may be interesting, I've since put it on my list of "things that intoxicate me" and have not been back to it. I love my brain, and my brain does not love LSA. This experience, especially the after-effect, has really turned me off of LSA. Although, Rivea or LSH may be on the menu in the distant future.

Thank you for digging up this thread with such a great report!

Sounds scary. I commend you for traveling. Something I may try on a nice long weekend now that I am aware of these possibilities.

Passing out seems to make sense to me. LSA is sedating and body-locking for sure. I enjoy the LSA train of thought. Certainly not for everyone. As for LSA + MAOI I can't say until I try it .

Glad you made it back in one piece, glad you reported back this valuable information!

I think that if people experience psychedelic effects from seeds, this is mostly caused by LSH and not LSA.

I have taken LSA with ayahuasca two times, and both times it was no great succes. I find that LSA diminished the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca and that it is more a sedative than a psychedelic after all.

I think that LSA probably binds to many of the receptors LSD binds to, but instead of being an agonist of these receptors, it probably has antogonistic effects.

The mint concersion is realy worthwile. Turning LSA into LSH makes a difference of night and day.

what polytrip says is absolutely correct

Interesting, Tobias was considering 75-100 rivea seeds with a moderate to strong caapi brew. He has used HBWR many times before, but never rivea.

He is going to soak the seeds in some port wine for 24 hours to convert lsa to lsh. He says he tried HBWR in mint tea but the dose was far too low and nothing besides a typical HBWR experience was had and he heard port wine works very well for this process.

Does this seem like it could lead to an enlightening state in which one could communicate with the spirits like with aya? Obviously he isn't expecting a DMT experience but he feels the vine adds a very spiritual aspect to the dmt experience.