Long time no write, Nexians. A lot has been on my mind recently, and a few of those thoughts seem at home on this forum.

In my life, as I suspect is the case for many of you, spiritual exploration has been one of my guiding desires. I studied all the usual stuff: Buddhism, Taoism, Advaita, and all the different talking-heads I could find on the internet or in person who expounded on these subjects. Psychedelics, of course, are included.

However, as I have gotten older, something has been troubling me about the spiritual discourse as I have been exposed to it. I have noticed an assumption underlying a lot of these teachings that presumes the ability of the adherent to devote themselves entirely to "X" spiritual discipline. There is also often an implicit judgment that failure to do so is symptomatic of some kind of disingenuousness or laziness on the part of the individual.

This sounds eerily familiar to me and recently I realized that it seems to be a relative of the meritocratic, "pull yourself by your own bootstraps" mentality that is used to maintain the socioeconomic status quo in the United States. Expensive retreats and classes, money for texts, free time to focus on one's spiritual practice, enough economic stability to look past daily survival, these are all things that are taken for granted by many disciplines. Where is the spirituality for the working stiff? Where is the chance for transcendence for the single mother with four children? I do not find suggestions that one walk away from one's responsibilities to one's family and community and "drop out" to be ethically defensible.

This is where psychedelics come in. I am especially chafed by the way they are frequently talked about among spiritual circles. Without citing specific examples, I think you will agree that they are commonly alluded to as a kind of shortcut or cheat, producing delusions at worst and a preview at best. To make them the focus of one's spirituality seems to be considered quite risible.

I am not suggesting anyone should feel guilty for having the resources to explore spirituality in a more traditional way, I am just arguing that psychedelics are a tremendous equalizing force in making direct mystical experience available to the masses. I do think they pose a threat to some of the shell games that happen under the guise of spiritual pursuit and, just as equalizing forces in the realm of economics are ridiculed, the reaction from some teachers and group-members says a lot.

I think the less we can idealize the "narrow road," the better for humanity as a whole. What are your thoughts?

I definitely resonate with what you are saying. A lot of those YouTube talking heads, as you say, do seem to practice their own brand of spiritual elitism. "Egotistical yogi" should be an oxymoron, but it's not.

I agree that the main lessons of spiritual endeavors ought to be accessible to everyone. However, really embracing some of these lessons can be a hard, long, and painful process, which is why I think some of them have historically been reserved for certain types of people. If reaching enlightenment, whatever that is, could be done quickly, well then wouldn't everyone just reach it quickly then move on to something else?

Psychedelics can serve as that quick way up the mountain, but I have found, at least for myself, that the real benefit from them is not the 15 minute or 8 hour experience but rather the long period of integration that takes place afterward. This integration can be done simultaneously with other things, although having a more relaxed life helps the process.

How could people with three jobs and a family, for example, find time to trip at all let alone long, calm periods to fully integrate the experience? And if they do find the time to trip, is it possible that they might be launched into a deep depression if they realize their life is maybe not that great compared to how some others have it?

So I guess it is complicated to figure out how to holistically create pathways to peace for the common man. I think those little Buddhist advice/proverb books are tremendously helpful though. As a middle class kid I was always inspired by this little book filled with Buddhist proverbs, and it provided me with quick relief while going to or coming home from work. These are usually written by pop-Buddhists like the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh, whom I think do a lot of work to inspire average people to be happier and more at peace with themselves.

However, I think there could always be more intention put toward creating accessible spiritual systems.

Like you, I have explored many traditional roads. I have lived with a yuwipi medicine man for several years for one instance.

However, I eventually came to the conclusion that no one can own or define my spirituality. Spirituality however you may wish to define it is a process that can be unique to the individual traveling their own road. For me, I no longer feel the need to travel down some one else's road or path. I no longer feel the need to buy into others dogma. I am content instead to unravel my own dogma and come to my own unique realizations that are true for me. This does not mean that I don't listen to what others have to say or enjoy ages old traditions or even newer traditions that are evolving as we speak as I see spirituality evolves within and without just like religions evolve and change over time. Sometimes adopting strategies or tools from another culture. All religions do this... do not be fooled. My inner truth is not to be ruled by another's rules when it comes to what is okay and what is not. Instead, I find myself ruled by my own inner conscience and what feels right and does no harm.

The long and short of it... I don't buy into what another thinks I should be or do. I instead I try to find contentment in who I am and enjoy the moment I am in. If I can share some inner peace along the way or contribute to another's happiness in a meaningful way... this also brings joy to me.

No one owns the spirits... plant spirits or otherwise. No one person controls who those spirits can or can not talk or commune with. To judge another's path as being less than another is to already engage in a form of elitism. If shamanic religions or religions that employ psychedelic type plants are not in vogue or simply looked down upon as a cheat by some... then how does that affect me if I believe otherwise? Who gives a plug nickel what is true for another or popular for a particular group?

No, I will be content with finding my own way that is unique to myself. I will be content to recognize that everyone has their own journey and so long as it does no harm does it really concern me? For me, I do not need another human being telling me how to explore my own inner spirituality. My being is mine to explore free of judgments from others as I'm a harsh enough critic as it is.

A peyote button lost in someone's garden never has once declared to me.... no! I will not talk to you or another fellow because they are not the right race.

Pejuta has never once told me that he is too good for another human being or that human was born into the wrong culture so he would not help.

Pejuta has never judge another the way that humans do.

Pejuta however may magnify those demons already within us just as he may magnify that which is good.

For me, medicines are there for all of us... not just the select few or the elite. Medicines are not to be tossed aside as being the tool of the weak as it takes a strong person to bring a magnifying glass to his own demons.

Sometimes for me, I need to own what is mine and realize that what has been brought to the surface is not a reflection of the medicine, but instead a reflection of a part of myself.

My take on spirituality is similar. I also don't buy into the "talking heads," or, what I like to call, mainstream religions(including the new psychedelic fads), who say you have to walk this path, gives us money, or live this specific way to learn what we have to teach. I actually find them quite annoying and I think they hinder my own progress. When looked at that way, it's just another form of control.

I'm not against people who conform to others beliefs, if that's what floats your boat, more power to you and I'm happy for you. This doesn't mean I agree with it. Accepting something and agreeing with something don't necessarily go hand in hand. Everyone is free to make their own choices and who I am to judge.

However, my personal belief is that, dedicating yourself to 'x' religion or spiritual path closes your consciousness and is a very narrow-minded approach towards spiritual development. "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."-Albert Einstein

While this quote could be applied to just about any facet of life, government, sociology, environmentalism, economics, and the list goes on and on, when used in the context of personal problems, problems are exactly that, personal. So using someone else's methodology will never completely apply to another individual.

That being said, I personally take in all the information I can about well-being or spirituality from a multitude of sources with as open a mind as I can, yes, even Scientology has its merits.

Now I don't take any of this information as 'word of god' or absolute truth, but rather, I look at in the 3rd person. Almost as if I'm outside myself and I'm an impartial observer. I try not to formulate opinions because that's one step away from judging. Instead, I pick and choose certain aspects of each source that pertain or resonate with me personally. Then, I just simply disregard the rest. This is where psychedelics came into the picture as well. They aren't my 'focus' per-se, but more of an expansion.

My personal spirituality is a culmination and combination of everything I've ever read or saw. This isn't really a process that can ever be 'completed.' I'm always open to new ideas and refining it over time. Again, this is what worked for me. No two individuals are the same.

This is very much how I approach modern rationalism. I can't believe some actually think we will solve anything with nurturing over and over the most unique thoughts to our centuries. It is precisely a thought that is anchored within separation and an illusory will of control, I don't think it will ever truly solve anything however attractive the illusion may be.

There is different ways to look at things but there is always truth. The infinite branches of possibilities all come from the same tree and the same roots, leafs fall differently, go in different size and shapes, colors and songs, but they all are anchored to the essence, to the flow, to balance.

Any discipline that knows this and whom action keep balance and movement in harmony, that is anchored within the body and its truth, is worth keeping. The rest has to be ended - with dreadfully knowing they too are a part of this world and its movements, yet one should know when to cut the chord, if you wait too long you end up feeding on life that is not meant to be yours - it is pleasuring to strike and unveil your power as the storm but no storm can last ...

The question of control is an interesting one ... We were given this life and we have to give it back, we were infused with the breath of the world and came alive. We do not possess the breath but can learn to know it, dance with it, let it teach us ... It possesses us. As soon as we try to possess ourselves, each other and the world, everything falls. Humans are the possessed, not the possessing. We are in a trance, the trance of life, shaped by this world who knows truly better than us for it is older by length incomprehensible to us. It gave birth to us. Yet it is us, for we are so much more than a mean "me", we are submitted to ourselves ...

We have to bow to the world and nature, let it own us. I prefer to be ruled by the sky and the earth than by some greedy and pitiful man who has lost his way, however unforgiving are the ways of nature they are just and true. Nature rules all, it is truth. Man was not meant to rule the world, nor himself, and there can be an elder and someone who knows, there will always be, someone who knows when to act or when to rest, but it should never go out onto disrespecting nature, crossing the lines ...

I see people by how they act and live their lives in relation to their body, what are their environnements and their actions within that environnements. If you are a naked man running in the wild and feeling all the movements of the world on your skin, through all your senses, you are more wise and knowledgeable than any scholar and big brain filled with pages (that look too much like administrative garbage anyway) that could "save the world" with his hundred ideas. You know more. For true knowledge is experienced and knowledge without felt experience is a sad delusion of some depersonalized lunatic ...

Spirituality is something physical. It is a way of evolving consciousness through the body to its full realization, it is understanding the technology that is the body and keeping still in that body, feeling well in it and understanding its place in this greater flow. Any sign of disrupting this equilibrium, of seeking out of the body, should be considered seriously as dangerous and maddening.

So you should eat nature, let it penetrate you, infuse you with its essence. You might die, but then still ... who never did?

Sometime you need a little help from your friends, even if their tongue is long forgotten to you and all schlygdalouskuddling ...

There have been many interesting debates about the hierarchy between the narrow and the wide path and those who choose them, in almost any spiritual tradition.
You could ask yourself if it realy is thát enlightened not to care about the rest of the world, to isolate yourself, and to think that you're better than anybody else.

A more meaningfull way of looking at it would be to think of it in terms of the sacrifices one is willing to make.
A poor man, donating a single euro to famine relief may have made a greater sacrifice, than a rich person donating a million.

Another of my favorite quotes from Einstein is the definition of insanity is performing the same experiment over and over, and expecting different results. The two really go hand in hand. If you can't change your way of thinking, but are expecting different results, you are insane in my book.



What I meant by control, was the main-stream and modern world trying to control how we live our lives basically what you said here...



I agree wholeheartedly to this statement.

The question of repeating pattern is nuanced imo, the whole universe is the same pattern through all possible angles. I guess experiments however would be a set of conditions and elements intricately intertwined and finding the right combination for this One experiment is the right path, that which allows that One to live in balance with the other Ones, the patterns and the world.

In Aikido you soon understand all movements are one movement, you just have to get beyond pattern recognition - I also had this realization before with pois. I think "Gods and Godesses" (or archetypes, etc) are the same, you see all those patterns in people and nature and extract their essence, feeling and understanding it as something alive. You enter in contact with the abstractness of the form and its repercussion through time.

Aikido is also a lot about control, so it has been a lot on my mind. Uke attacks, so he seeks to perturb the balance, and Tori applies the technique, which is about enhancing the unbalance of Uke and neutralizing him while remaining perfectly balanced. It's amazing applied philosophy and it has really made me see the world and my body differently. It also connect to that experiment thing: for every move you make in life, every time you interact with someone or something, there is a right position, an optimal way to orchestrate your body - and your mind.

The world is just one giant living organism that knows a lot of moves and is an amazing chief of orchestra. Music and dance time!

I saw the OP the other day, thought that Beelzebozo asked some very valid questions, sat down to write something and was almost immediately interrupted by other, more pressing matters to take care of.

Now I see that Wakinyan has written pretty much exactly what I was going to say.




I could have not put it more succinctly myself. Thanks to the OP for the thoughtful questions and thank you Wakinyan for your eloquent answers that resonate with me in a very personal way.

I think this quote articulates my feelings on this topic quite well.
“A man moved near a river and, wanting to find a way to travel across the water, spent ten years forming a type of levitation that would allow him to float across it. Buddha, who was preaching in town, was confronted by this man, who said, “Look master, look what I have achieved. I can walk across the water.” And Buddha said, “Yeah, but the ferry only costs a nickel…”-Terence Mckenna


I agree with this wholeheartedly, I have found the real change comes from the choices I've made after my psychedelic experiences. Yes I get a long lasting euphoric buzz that puts me in a good mood, but I interpret that good mood as a reference point to aim for, more generally.

For me this is a case of bad analogy. The ferry keeps you from touching the water, as does levitation, psychedelic are about swimming with every fiber of your body through that current. Life is like this.

It doesn't mean much to build a bridge and cross it, you have not crossed much then and it is not really you who crossed the river.

These are good, hard questions RAM and I really appreciate you for asking them.

I really like the way you say it, "enlightenment, whatever that is," ha! In my life, especially as a recovering Advaita fanatic, I have found it very helpful to deconstruct enlightenment as an idea. I own my prejudice as I found it to be very harmful to my well-being to believe in such a thing as "enlightenment," "awakening," "liberation," "moksha," etc. Aside from actually dismantling the reality of the concept itself (which I recommend as an exercise), if we look at its effects, it seems to me to create a hierarchy of enlightened and unenlightened individuals, unavoidably. And I cannot believe anyone who values well-being would knowingly create that kind of division in their mind.

As to your questions about how a person with very limited economic means would integrate a psychedelic experience, I think you make a good point. I would never recommend psychedelics to anyone, but I think they should be available to anyone capable of giving informed consent. Maybe the experience could be helpful to some in unpredictable ways, even if it seems counterintuitive to the limits of their situation.

Time is a tricky issue too. I am personally in favor of better social nets so that people in lower economic situations can have more free time. I don't know how many people share my perspective though.



Well-said, Wakinyan. I try to prioritize in my life things that return me to my direct, immediate experience. Everything else is a diversion. This, the place where my hands and feet are right now, is ground zero, the stage for the impossible mystery show, the only place where I can explore what I am and what I can do. It is so easy to get sucked into what other people are doing.

There is so much denigration of our direct experience. Imagination, dreams, spontaneous movement, exploration of the voice and sound, these are all miraculous expressions of the big mystery. When I actively engage in them, I remember that I am a participant and that my experience is no less authentic than any of the names, Buddha, Jesus, Terence McKenna, etc.

Pejuta to me is most like bring a surgical laser to ones tool chest. Sure, other tools like buddhist meditation, Lakota vision quests, Taoist qi gong, chi kung, philosophy, introspection, etc. are all tools one might use to carve into the nature of what it means to "be" and they are all fine. Use what works and if you are a purist or traditionalist and wish to remain that way by all means don't change.

I was once one of those that argued for keeping things "pure" or "traditional" till I realized that for me that was a limiting approach. That there is indeed room for many variations and nothing is as "pure" as one might think it is as everything is evolving, growing, changing or else it is growing stagnant and perhaps even dying out.