Hi all,

Since there seems to be comparatively little information on 'psilohuasca' vs traditional ayahuasca, I wanted to share my experience with the nexus in the hopes it will help others.

PRE-CONDITIONS
(mind)Set: a little tired, otherwise fine
(physical condition) Set: healthy
Setting (location): my apartment
time of day: evening
recent drug use: cannabis, tianeptine, also tripped on 2.25g of cubes two days before
last meal: a roast beef sandwhich at noon time

PARTICIPANT
Gender: m
body weight: 80kg
known sensitivities: n/a
history of use: fairly experienced with a handful psychedelics; I have tripped many many times on LSD, mushrooms w/o an MAOI, and have smoked spice on a few occasions. I have never done traditional ayahuasca, however.


BIOASSAY
Substance(s): psilocybe cubensis, syrian rue seeds, meclizine hcl (for nausea)
Dose(s): 1.5g cubes, 2g rue, 25mg meclizine
Method of administration: rue was crushed and packed into gel caps, cubes were ground and soaked in lemon juice (lemon tek)


EFFECTS
Administration time: 18:30 hrs
Duration: 7 hours
First effects: 1 hour
Peak: 2-5 hours
Come down: 5-7 hours
Baseline: 7 hours

Intensity (overall): 3.5
Evaluation / notes:

OPTIONAL
Pleasantness: 4
Implesantness: 0
Visual Intensity: 3


AFTER-EFFECTS
Hangover: n/a
Afterglow: 4, started feeling much better about many aspects of my life as soon as I woke up the next morning


REPORT

Ingredients:

2g crushed Syrian Rue
1.5g P. Cubensis w/ lemon tek extraction

Note: for my lemon tek extraction, I grind up my mushies in a food processor, which brings them to a fairly fine powder. I mix the mushroom powder and lemon juice in a bottle for about a half hour, shaking vigorously every few minutes or so. I also let the bottle sit in a bowl of hot water. After this, I use a mesh filter to filter out the chunks of mushroom, and add regular lemonade to the lemon juice/shroom mix. Magic lemonade anyone?

Other:

25mg Meclizine HCl (for nausea)
Sour diesel cannabis smoked regularly throughout the trip. I am a regular cannabis smoker so I enjoy it while tripping.

I had a favorite trance mix playing for the duration of the trip, one I frequently listen to when tripping.

Timeline:

T=19:30 when I ingested the magic lemonade

T-1:00: ingest 25mg of meclizine hcl & 2g of crushed rue packed in gel caps

T-0:30: begin lemon tek extraction

T+0:00: ingest magic lemonade beverage

T+0:10: finish magic lemonade

T+0:40: not feeling much at this point (usually the onset is quicker with the lemon tek)

T+1:00: its now been an hour and I am just now starting to feel the onset

T+1:30: the trip is now getting intense, I am feeling a significant body load with tingling on my
extremities (though not unpleasant), and both CEVs and OEVs are becoming prominent

T+2:00: visual geometry is starting to overwhelm my field of vision, and the visuals are correlating to what is playing in the music

T+4:00 the last couple hours have been marked by going back and fourth between two mental states: a highly introspective state where I just sat on the edge of my bed and reflected on my life, and a euphoric state where I felt the music on such a deep level that I had waves of euphoria crashing over me

T+5:00 after being stuck in a state of profound introspection where I felt I almost couldn't control my thought process, I finally started to feel a bit more mentally clear and was even able to get up off my bed

T+5:30 I am starting to get the munchies from smoking, so I get up to prepare some food; visuals are no longer overwhelming

T+6:00 visuals have declined substantially over the past hour, they are still present but are significantly less noticeable

T+7:00 the trip feels pretty much over at this point, I feel mentally sober and am only experiencing very minor CEVs

At this point, I was very tired and wanted to sleep. In the past, I have had a hard time sleeping after tripping, so I took .25mg of alprazolam to bring the trip to a gentle conclusion. I fell right asleep and slept through the entire night, something I had been struggling with the prior few nights.

When I awoke the next morning, I felt rejuvenated and in a much better mood than I had been the past few days. I felt much more appreciative for all the positive aspects in my life. This is my first time trying psilohuasca, but it has definitely been one of the most profound and interesting psychedelic experiences I have ever had. I haven't tried regular ayahuasca, but I have blasted off before, and I would rate this as almost equal in intensity (although they are intense in their own ways, blasting off has that fast onset, but psilohuasca has a long duration).

Whoops, looks like this post got quite long... anyways thanks for reading

Thanks for sharing. I wish more people would experiment with and report on Psilohuasca. I think it's a pretty cool combo with potential as well. I've done it a few times myself and i look forward to working with it more in the time to come, i also look forward to mixing Psilocin and DMT together for Psilohuasca at some point, maybe even mixing both Rue and Caapi together in a balanced ratio, maybe even with an admixture plant or two. I think there's a lot of untapped potential with different combinations.

And it's kind of hard to believe that more people apparently haven't worked with Psilohuasca, it'd be interesting to hear more about people's experiences with it.

I love chewing a small piece of vine while preparing a mushy brew. Brings on an amazing experience. Same goes for smoking a X harmala dmt changa while being with the mushrooms. It's just beautiful. Love to hear if anyone else has combined vine or rue with mushrooms?

I agree, I am surprised more people haven't either. Seems there are a few posts on the nexus about it, but not many.

The fact that I had such an intense journey from such a small amount of mushroom material is amazing.

I realy love psilohuasca as well.
Has any of you experienced that the mushroom journey becomes more LSD-like? It's still a less 'digital' kind of experience than LSD, but there is the euphoria and that 'narrative' dimension, how the experience unfolds like a strange and exciting story, that mushrooms by themselves usually lack.

Cool stuff indeed. Actually there's lots of discussion re potentiation of tryptaminics(oral, smoked/vaped) by harmalas. Sure, it's not "psilohuasca" proper, but of a kind. It's a mad, mad world of exploration. Ayahuasca, anahuasca, psilohuasca, changa, DMT(smoked on pre-dose of harmala), RCs(like 4-aco-DMT) with harmala>>big bang! Really the potential combos are limitless. RIMA can come from rue, cappi OR moclobemide(very useful, if less available). Also, many report potentiation of phenethylamines by RIMAs, even though not obvious pharmacologically.

Remember, "La Chorrera", courtesy the brothers McKenna? High dose Stropharia(P cubensis), lots of MJ AND smoked cappi vine as a peak intensifier, damn near psychotomimetic. Well, I'll reiterate, psilohuasca, in particular, may be under reported on the Nexus....but not really.

Peace

Psilohuasca is just great. Too bad you started your dose in the evening. Had you started earlier, you might have had more energy left to enjoy the fantastic afterglow that really sets it apart from the straight mushroom experience. Well, I guess you got some of that the day after.

Harmalas also make a nice combination with lsd, makes the often rather analytical quality of lsd much more dreamy.

I also had a really good experience on some putative tetrahydroharmine (self made from rue extract) in combination with mushrooms. The trip resembled much more like lsd than mushrooms, both interms of quality and duration.

I see quite a bit of mention of smoking rue... is it just as simple as crushing some seeds and throwing them in a bowl? Also, when during (or before) the trip would you recommend vaporizing the rue?



I plan on redoing this experience when I have off from work and can devote an entire day to it and experience this afterglow.

With regards to rye+lsd, what is the duration like with this combo? Usually, the lemon tek gives me a couple hours of peak experience, but with the rue added in I was still tripping hard at hour four. For me, LSD usually gives an 8-12 hour experience, so how long can I expect to be tripping when I combine with rue?

For me the duration of Psilohuasca has usually been about 9 to 12 hours, seems to unfold in a similar way to how LSD does, imo.

And yes, you can smoke Rue seeds, whole or ground. I've smoked seeds, and i've smoked freebased Rue/Harmala extracts on top of Cannabis, the seeds work fine but the extract smokes better imo and is more concentrated than smoking the seeds.

My experience with lsd and harmalas is that the lsd outlasts the harmalas. After about 4 hours, the character of the trip changes back noticeably to a straight lsd experience.

By all means try to avoid smoking or eating raw rue seeds. Making a tea is extremely simple and effective and avoids a lot of the nausea. While somewhat more involved, a refined extract has many more benefits: even less body load, more accurate dosing, more comfortable vaping/smoking etc.

When experimenting with caapi, rue or harmala alkaloids in any form, always be aware of the potential side effects and interactions! Many types of recreational and pharmaceutical drugs can be lethal in combination with maois. Also avoid the use of larger amounts of alcohol in combination with harmalas.

By the 4 hour mark most harmaline and harmine has been metabolized.
If you want a harmala to better match psilocybin or LSD, THH is your best bet.
Attached are the pharmacokinetic profiles of harmalas after oral ingestion in human subjects*.
Half of the THH is still in the blood and unaltered after 9 hours.

* Graphs are from 'Determination of N,N-dimethyltryptamine and β-carboline alkaloids in human plasma following oral administration of Ayahuasca', Journal of Chromatography B, 779 (2002) 271–281

Thanks everyone for the insight, I shall make the rue tea next time I plan on having this kind of experience. And thanks Elrick for the pharnacokinetic graphs of harmala alkaloid concentrations, I always love learning about this stuff!

Now, here is a question: how does it actually work? My speculation is that the MAO enzyme is partly responsible for the metabolism of psilocin, since tryptamines are monoamine alkaloids. However, the structure of LSD is significantly more complex, and I thought part of the reason for its increased duration of action was the fact that it was more resistant to metabolic destruction by enzymes like MAO...

But if MAO inhibition potentiates the effects of LSD, then that means a) either LSD is in fact metabolized by MAO, or b) the harmala alkaloids potentiate psychedelics via some other mechanism. Perhaps through increased serotonin concentrations, but then again serotonin and psychelics both compete for 5-HT receptors and share those binding sites...

Anyone have any insight to how MAO inhibition potentiates psychedelics? I am now supremely curious

triptonaut34, have you noticed any potentiation due to the rue? With pharmahuasca, a big dose of harmalas leads to a severe potentiation of the DMT or rather...a synergy effect. I only once smoked caapi during a mushroom trip: caapi, DMT freebase, then caapi . It had a profound calming effect and somehow kept the residual DMT visuals going for longer. Perhaps a low dose of harmalas can sort of ..take the edge of a mushroom trip too?

But i'd consider sublingual harmalas for that instead of smoking.

Hi Obliguhl,

I definitely noticed potentiation, both increased intensity and increased duration of effects.

When I trip via the lemon tek normally, 2-3g of ingredients are used for a common dose, and the experience lasts 3-4 hours for me.

When I consumed the 2g of rue seeds prior to the lemon tek done with 1.5g of ingredient, I had a much stronger trip than I ever previously had with the lemon tek. The experience also lasted over 6 hours.

However, I am still unsure of the mechanism of action of harmala alkaloid potentiation of psychedelics.

I am definitely planning to primarily use MAOIs when consumimg mushies going forward (except when tripping with friends in whom RIMAs are contraindicated).

Yes, Psilocin is metabolized by MAO-A (idk about LSD though), thus with MAO-A inhibition, more Psilocin makes it into the system unmetabolized. And imo there's also some potentiation from Psychedelics with MAO-A inhibition due to the increase in neurotransmitters, since i think Psychedelics still alter the neurotransmitters in the brain and with extra neurotransmitters it gives things a fuller feel, but MAO-A inhibition is definitely different than SSRI's, SSRI's counteract Psychedelics because the Serotonin sticks around, while MAO-A inhibition merely allows for extra Serotonin in the background, the Psychedelics still work though unlike with SSRI's.

Also for me, i've noticed Harmaline/Harmine up to 8 hours after ingestion, and the CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 inhibition is noticeable about hour 6 to 10 with a good strong dose of Harmalas.

Remember, the Harmala dosage is important, the more Harmalas you use the less DMT or Shrooms you'll need, the less Harmalas you use the more DMT or Shrooms you'll need. Imo you wanna go for full MAO-A inhibition so that you can use as little DMT or Shrooms as necessary for a full on potentiated dose, but it's all about personal preference and the nature of the experience can change depending on the ratio of the compounds involved.

There could be some other effects of Harmalas that are involved in the potentiation, but i think it's the MAO-A inhibition. I took 30mgs of 4-ACO-DMT (that does indeed metabolize into Psilocin) with 300mgs of Moclobemide last week and it was just as potentiated as it is with Rue/Harmalas, and Moclobemide is purely a reversible MAO-A inhibitor with no other effects.

Duration of effects is a secondary issue here IMHO. Harmine, harmaline and tetrahydroharmine have different pharmacological profiles. THH is not an effective maoi as harmine and harmaline are. THH however does act like a weak ssri, unlike harmine/harmaline.

BTW I did try harmine + thh (assuming that my kitchen synthesis worked) in combination with mushrooms. It made the shroom experience very much more lsd-like, also in terms of duration.


Indeed these are very interesting questions. Different neurochemicals influence each other in a cascade of feedback effects. I can't help wondering how much more we will discover in the years to come. Some new ideas might be completely unexpected and well outside our current frame of thinking.

Nice trip report op. Since you guys are talking sr combos, I've also had great results combining eaten or vaped sr with dmt and shrooms. I prefer acid as a recreational psy, interacting and laughing, and combined with sr acid encourages a much more introspective, lying down in silent darkness type trip. Very visual and lots of deep thinking. Halfway between acid and psilohuasca I guess. So I don't do it with acid any more.

But other sr combos are great ime, low doses of weed get deep and visual. Ketamine holes come from lower doses and are more directed and able to be remembered. And it seems like it might play a part in reverse tolerance of all these things, for me at least.

Huh, I wasn't aware of cytochrome P450 activity gfrom harmala alkaloids...

Edit: apparently harmala alkaloids are inducers of CYP3A4 and inhibitors of CYP2D6 (among others). So, if other psychedelics are metabolized by CYP2D6, then their effects would be potentiated. Conversely, any drugs metabolized by CYP3A4 would have a reduced effect when combined with harmala alkaloids.

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih...pmc/articles/PMC3841998/

Yeah CYP2D6 and CYP1A2 substrates seem to be pretty potentiated by the Harmalas ime, although i haven't experienced any increase in metabolization of CYP3A4 substrates (like benzo's for example), but i've experienced some potent potentiation of Caffeine and my sleep medicine Tizanidine through the CYP1A2 inhibition, and i've experienced potent potentiation of some CYP2D6 substrates like Clonidine and Benadryl. I think the CYP2D6 inhibition from the Harmalas may have something to do with the reverse tolerance to Harmalas, as the more regularly they're consumed the stronger they get, so in essence the Harmalas inhibit their own metabolization, and i've also taken some substances that inhibit CYP2D6 and they were able to potentiate the Harmala dosage.

Shamens, thanks for the insight. I did think a combined enzyme inducer and inhibitor sounded a little weird, but I guess that was more theortical. I will take intellectual comfort in thinking of harmala alkaloids as CYP2D6 and 1A2 inhibitors, lol.

Twattle, just curious, when you smoke your rue, are you smoking the crushed seeds or an extract ? I currently have seeds, but am thinking of procuring some extract.