Every time I mix clear yellow Syrian rue tea with clear red mimosa tea, the mixture immediately curdles and turns an opaque cream/beige color. Then, if I let it sit for a while it separates into two distinct layers: a deep gold/orange clear liquid on top, and this creamy pinkish beige paste on the bottom....

What causes this phenomenon?

I never hear of this happening to anybody else (I have only heard about it happening to a single other person), and I'm not sure it happens if the two are brewed together from the beginning.....

Neither of the two teas initially had any sediment in them whatsoever, yet when they combine, lots of this coagulate crashes out.......

Is the dmt in the paste that forms, or the orange liquid on top? The harmalas?

Considering how popular mimosa-rue is, it strikes me as very odd that I never see this addressed.......

Best case scenario, non-actives in the rue tea are binding to the tannic "gunk" in the mimosa tea, causing them separate .....worst case scenario, the dmt and harmalas are separated into different layers and the ayahuasca is compromised.

I've had this happen too. Back when i was trying to make Rue extract tinctures (water based), i tried adding it to my Acacia and Lemon Balm teas and all of a sudden this precipitate just crashed out. I tried adding the extract tincture to a Lemon Balm tea itself and same thing happened, also tried other herbal teas, same thing. It seems to be just the Rue/Harmalas that does it, i'm not sure why though but i do wonder how many others have had this happen as well and what would be the reason it happens and what is it that precipitates out. If i'm not mistaken, it looked like it was the Harmalas themselves precipitating back out.

I remember this happening to me once before and i have a picture of it, will post it when i get to my laptop

My guess is that the material in the MHRB are binding to the harmalas like you said to create a new harmala salt that is not soluble in cold water, just like in manske, i've had concentrated solutions where crystals crash out in less than a minute so it's possible.. it's just a guess i could be totally wrong..

This is interesting, good you mentioned it

delete me

The water-based Harmala tinctures i made had some citric acid in it, and others had vinegar, it still happened, which i thought was weird.

I separated the layers, added fresh water to the pasty sediment layer, redecanted, and am now drying the paste/sediment layer in the oven on low temp.....

I'll see what I end up with.......not sure how to check what's in it......

Maybe try to dissolve the stuff in vinegar?

delete me

What could cause these to crash out, when the solutions are combined?

Ok so I dried the curdle sediment and it came out as a tasteless, odorless, gray/beige powder.....


wtf....There looks to be about a gram of it

Wondering if the curdling happens when the two are cooked together and maybe it tends to just be discarded as "sediment" when one decants.....the golden/orange liquid without the curdle powder is very beautiful to behold....after a day of sitting it has a shimmering rainbow-color layer over the top......like gasoline on water......really hoping it has all the harmalas and all the light in it

Try dissoing it in minimal amount of hot water and vinegar and saturate it with salt to see if harmalas crash out from it..

I've seen this rainbow layer once when i brewed the acacia and rue together, it's beautiful

ALSO

I just found this:

http://herbs.mxf.yuku.co...asting-Brew#.WM54JYWcESk

"(I should stop here to point out something.  One method that I have used is to brew the P. harmala and M. hostilis separately, and then combine the teas as needed.  This way, I can decide on ratios just before tripping.  However, if you brew the teas separately, they will not form sediments nearly as well as if you brew them together; the sediments will just stay suspended in the tea.  If I brew them separately, then the P. harmala tea is brown and the M. hostilis tea is dark red/purple.  When you combine them together, they "magically" start coagulating and turn beige.  But in order for the sediments to form properly, the two teas have to be combined AND heated.  A ten minute boil is sufficient.  Then stick the fluid in the fridge as let it form sediment.)"

I think I will get a good dose of rue tea and a good dose of mimosa tea, combine, heat, reduce volume by 50%, decant, rebrew sedimnent, redecant, combine liquids, discard coagulate powder, drink.........

I'll see where that gets me.....then again, that way I won't be able to notice potency losses as I tend to drink them separately and any difference may be due to maoi/light timing rather than being due to actives being in the curdle sediment.......


I could always drink the combination without discarding the coagulate/curdle, and then repeat next time but discarding it first........

Why not try to identify it with chemistry bcz the potency of the trip is affected by many factors

Because every time I've tried a manske it failed, and if it did work, and harmalas crash out, I still would not be sure if the curdle sediment contains the dmt as well...

This just happened, when a 10g MHRB CWE brew was combined with a 4g syrian rue brew boiled 3 x 30min and filtered. As soon as the Rue brew touched the MHRB CWE brew coagulation took place.

Bump.

So what happened? What's in the coagulate/precipitate curdling?

Tannins precipitate many alkaloids, harmalas are apparently among these.

I had a few minutes to goof around so I did a test.
A strong tea was made from fresh Sanguisorba officinalis root as a tannin source, it was filtered. Some mixed harmine/DHH hydrochloride was dissolved in water giving an orange-yellow solution. The tannin tea and harmalas were combined, clouding was immediate and within a minute a large amount of precipitate was aggregating into clumps. This was centrifuged, yielding a bright neon yellow solution and a good size blob of tan solids. The liquid was poured off and replaced with vinegar, which succeeded in dissolving the tan solids.
I got curious as to how complete the precipitation could be so I took the yellow liquid from centrifugation and added to it a larger amount of the tannin tea. After a minute of mixing I centrifuged again. The quantity of solids was roughly the same as last time and the liquid was now light yellow.

If this were the case and the curdling is the harmalas crashing out, then why would mimosa-rue anahuasca work when the two plants are brewed together?

Typically ayahuasca and mimosa-rue brew are milky with suspended alkaloid tannates so these get ingested and generally encounter stomach acid, which is a stronger acid than tannic acid, so it dissolves the alkaloids leaving free tannic acid behind. Just like when I dissolved the harmala tannate in vinegar.
I remember a Terence McKenna talk in which he related an incident where he had a partly consumed bottle of ayahuasca with lots of settled solids. He couldnt remember if the rule was always drink the solids or never drink the solids so, just to be safe, he shook it up and drank it and the stuff hit him like a sack of potatoes

As a side note, after my last post I took that vinegar with dissolved solids, added an equal amount of saturated salt solution, refrigerated it, and got a test tube lined with pretty yellow crystals.