Posted this elsewhere, seemed a reasonable springboard for new topic: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...98&f=65&q=788582

I really think the mystical experience, however it's catalysed, is a real experience.

You said it really well in your post there Legarto, this is a universal experience. This is why I think the state, the dimension experienced is a reality. This experience is universal across cultures, and has been throughout history, yes it is very often the basis of these cultures, they viewed the experience as being genuine. A lot of these cultures were very advanced, sophisticated cultures too.

Another reason why I think the experience is real is because of the results. This experience gives people, and cultures a genuine code of ethics, not based on dogma or just philosophy and supposition, but on fundamental truths that are personally experienced.

Anyway, that's just my personal opinion.

Surely the experience had during a non-ordinary SOC is as "real" as any mind-state. What seems productive is to draw upon the elegant descriptions and mental models delivered to us by our VERY experienced ancestors through myth and esoteric religious story telling.

Mental modeling of, "what the heck is going on", during profoundly novel SOCs helps an individual develop a template or scaffold onto/through which he/she can ORGANIZE their contemplation/integration of the "journey". As these SOC can be quite disorienting, it is valuable to develop a tool for "mapping" the experience. This has been done for us already. Why not use superb, existing topographical maps to assist you in creating YOUR OWN meaning and Truths offered by these sacred tools, ie plant entheogens. For certain there is deep wisdom to be gleaned from the power plants(and synthetic cogeners).

In closing, I would add that for an experienced psychonaut, the value in studying current year "trip reports" is rather marginal. Develop your own psychedelic compass, the ancients laid the groundwork. With practice, you may be surprised how much more deeply you can focus, during and after the trip, when you use a reliable "map".

Peace