I just wanted to draw peoples attention to a recent thread that died in order to see if anyone has had or knows anyone who has had similar experiences to this:

John Dee and Edward Kelley invented a language called "Enochian", they claim that they would enter states in which they would communicate with angels and spirits, and through these communications they were given the enochian language from angels.

As far as mysteriously derived languages go enochian an intriguing prospect, it's not in relation to glossolalia, but for one reason or another I thought of it while reading your post.

-eg

This is a fascinating subject although unlikely to lend itself to objective analysis. Language is deeply ingrained in the human mind/brain correlate. So much so that we typically "forget" that it is a contrived convention. We become so habituated to our language(pictographic>written and auditory>spoken) that we "think" linguistically, mistakenly conflating the reality of our thoughts/ideas/experiences, with the artifice of words. Amazing really!

The gift that is engendered by our beloved medicines is in essence, translinguistic. They(the medicines) allow us to "communicate" with the "other" without language>>>>the Logos. Very difficult to describe to the uninitiated or even ourselves whilst in consensus state of consciousness. Pretty darn cool, it's what lures us back into the "billows".

Incidentally, I'm a Salvia fan. I'll often find myself mouthing words and "sentences" in an unknown tongue particularly as I reintegrate from a deeper trance state. There is a brief interval where I sense that it is a "familiar" language but then seems gibberish as I return to "myself". Fun topic.

Peace

^^

And yes it is a fascinating subject. One of the most remarkable things about the DMT experience to me is it's relationship with language, although i don't profess to begin to understand it.

I am repeatedly exposed to the same external language, audible from outside my consciousness. My guess as to the information it contains is that it is some sort of expression by the "other" of the data of this part of hyperspace, like the hyperdimension is breaking down into language as it emanates into three dimensional reality. I'm sorry if that makes no sense, neither does DMT.

This phenomenon seems to occur prior to bursting through into whatever the peak of the trip will be, if it does indeed extend beyond that point. There is also often heard at other points in the trip very clearly understood words, repeating and overlapping and coming from everywhere, and so close i can feel the vibration of the sound on my earlobes, as if I'm being whispered to by someone very close to me. It can be alarming at first, I've mistaken it for someone the room, even though I'm alone. This seems to occur at the very beginning, it seems.

The idea of translating the hyperspace language seems unlikely to succeed to me, but perhaps it is not a subjective thing, and could be if a party could relate it to one another. That's one of the other truly fascinating things to me about DMT, the objectivity of the experience. It is hard for me to think that a simple chemical process in the brain gives these universal experiences of touching other external realities, so maybe these girls were able somehow to bring back the sounds, replicate them, and intuiting the attached meaning of them through their individual experiences, teach themselves how to communicate with it.

Then again, the jury is still divided as to whether Dee and Kelley were charlatans ensuring their livelihood as royal court astrologers and alchemists was secure by feigning their practice of talking to the Angels, or perhaps the trance state Kelley entered to scrye the messages tapped into the Logos and brought forth some emanation of language from it. I don't have a link to a digital version, but some of his visions are astounding in their otherworldliness, and pretty cool to read no matter what you think of how legitimate the duo was.

The, "clearly understood words, repeating, overlapping and coming from every where", null24 references show up on a number of 60s-70s Rock albums, Pink Floyd comes to mind. I'd have to look up the songs. No doubt these were allusions to the medicine induced Logos.

If/when one experiences the "unitive" state, catalyzed by entheogens or otherwise, it can seem as if the subject-object(self-other) reference frame dissolves into a unitary awareness. IMO, quite a gift to be given, even if only once in a "lifetime"!

Interestingly, our actual essence as excrescences sweat from the Cosmos, is unitary. The idea of, subject-object(self-other), really is just a linguistic convention. Very useful for using the tool of language. Alan Watts talked a lot about this "reality", not terribly practical but informative none the less. Merry Christmas/Holiday to the Nexus!

Peace

Good post.

Glossolalia is language disconnected from meaning, yet I feel the more common experience is disconnecting meaning from known language, for example, have you ever said a known word so many times that it's loses its meaning, and for a breif moment becomes an amusing combination of gesticulating vocal cords and movements of the mouth and tounge, completely ceasing to correlate in any way to the concept which they represent?

Our reality is intrinsically ingrained in our construct of coded language, and as a result it constructs a vast deal of our perceived reality, I'm reminded of something said by terence McKenna:



On the surface this statement of McKenna's appears to be rather soft-headed, yet when it's understood the role that language plays in our processing and perception of reality, and when you have a grasp on mckenna's style of conveying abstract concepts, you realize that this actually describes a rather obvious and inherently true aspect of the nature of physical being, and you realize that existance in physical form is code based, and that all codes are amenable to certain types of manipulation...

(I consumed a good deal of cannabis extract before engaging in the composing of this post, and it's this is obvious I apologize)

-eg

I've seen people on salvia extract enter an intense state of glossolalia, interesting you mention this, as i had nearly forgotten about it, as salvinorin does not induce this phenomena in myself, but would frequently induce intense glossolalia in an individual I knew many years back, she would often have little to no memory of these events. This was fairly consistent with this individual...

-eg

I speak to my cat in a gibberish language filled with clicks and whistles and those Mongolian throat singing nasal resonances.

It would be crazy to assume he understands English.

My dog understands English...

Any way....

Speaking of tuvan vocal overtones:


Go to 1:12 in THIS link, it's terence McKenna and Jill pruce demonstrating "tuvon vocal overtones"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1pcEtHI_w
Tuvan overtones (go to 20 seconds in)

-eg

That is a shame that no one really responded to the OPs links and quotes specifically. Nice posts nonetheless though!

What a fascinating scenario though, that two people actually could speak the same language that they learned from DMT:

I mentioned the girl I knew who would enter fits of glossolalia with salvia...

I thought it related to the original post...

Once on psilocybin I could understand Russian perfectly, even though I do not speak Russian, the girl who knew Russian and English confirmed that I was accurately understanding what she was saying, on Psychedelics meaning becomes obvious, I think you can understand what a person wants to communicate simply by looking at them while on psychedelic compounds...skin also becomes translucent and moves with emotion, for example when my ex-girlfriend try to manipulate me or fight with me when I was on LSD or psilocin I could see "devil horns" jump out of her forehead...This is the unity of minds people speak of, where if something is thought in one person's head it can be known by anyone who is receptive...

I think most people get tired of being called "crazy" and choose not to discuss these things, that was my situation any way.

-eg

i totaly agree that there's comunication beyond our normal language while on psychedelics
But in my experience (on mushrooms for exemple), it's mostly transmiting emotion and sensation, rarely direct content. I could look at a friend making a huge psychedelic monologue and loose complete sense of the words he is using, but still see what he means somehow

DMT and glossalia... well i experience this oftenly. For me it's a complete mystery. These sounds happen mostly on high dose, when i'm overwhelmed and i don't know what's goin on at all. Then i start "chaneling" these sounds and it structure completly the expérience, re empower me - the sounds create my journey and the content of the trip.

But this can be used as a language like proposed in the first post? Hard to beleive ! Why this would describe anything specific of our little human dimention anyway - like a drawing? I don't just beleive anything i read on internet sorry ;(

ps: i saw also someone having a huge "epileptic" episode on DMT that started with the chanel of the most alien inhuman complex sound ever... and ended in the most terrific convulsions. This sound what not just a random stuff. Still a mystery for me.