DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 278 Joined: 30-Nov-2010 Last visit: 06-Apr-2017
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what do you consider the most stable form of lsd/ what tricks could be used to preserve it as an example that is probably horribly inaccurate, a friend told me once that adding tartaric acid to mushroom tea helps to preserve the psylocibin from breaking down i wonder if there is something like that you could add to lsd liquid to help it preserve? also many people seem to think that geltabs are the most stable, could one make vegan geltabs with agar? are there any teks out there for making stable gellys ive received the trans dermal download in the apousal lounge
no disease could possibly survive in such a wiggly environment!
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Posts: 82 Joined: 15-Nov-2015 Last visit: 16-Jan-2019
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LSD is usually in the form of tartrate salt, which is supposed to be more stable than other forms such as freebase or maleate salt. Some say oxidation may be a concern with water, the colour of liquid is often reported to change from clear to a darker solution which may be related, although... Sasha Shulgin wrote:“As a salt, in water, cold, and free from air and light exposure, it is stable indefinitely." I’m not sure if geltabs are the most stable medium as they’re usually made from gelatin, which can become quite funky if not stored well. Liquid, gels, dots & blotter all seem to keep well if stored properly, but for long-term stability I’ve heard that raw crystal in an inert environment is ideal.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 2889 Joined: 31-Oct-2014 Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
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Quote:LSD is an unusually fragile molecule and some comments are in order as to its stability and storage. As a salt, in water, cold, and free from air and light exposure, it is stable indefinitely. There are two sensitive aspects of its structure. The position of the carboxamide attachment, the 8-position, is affected by basic, or high pH, conditions. Through a process called epimerization, this position can scramble, producing isolysergic acid diethylamide, or iso-LSD. This product is biologically inactive, and represents a loss of a proportionate amount of active product. A second and separate point of instability is the double bond that lies between this 8-position and the aromatic ring. Water or alcohol can add to this site, especially in the presence of light (sunlight with its ultraviolet energy is notoriously bad) to form a product that has been called lumi-LSD, which is totally inactive in man. Oh yes, and often overlooked, there may be only an infinitesimal amount of chlorine in treated tap water, but then there is only an infinitesimal amount of LSD in a typical LSD solution. And since chlorine will destroy LSD on contact, the dissolving of LSD in tap water is not appropriate.
-shulgin ; TIHKAL -eg
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analytical chemist
   
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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the proverbial sugar cube was the medium of choice in the 70's, aside from cellulose and paraffin. I'd complex it with a cyclodextrin of the gamma or beta conformation. this also allows for quick characterization of the epimers on LCMS. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 278 Joined: 30-Nov-2010 Last visit: 06-Apr-2017
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so would adding a small amount of tartaric acid to the solution help stabilize it if its a tartate salt? and buffer it from being to high ph...for that matter would citric acid work also that way? ..the idea was to use agar to make a more neutral(stable?) jelly than gelatin? ive received the trans dermal download in the apousal lounge
no disease could possibly survive in such a wiggly environment!
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Psilosopher
Posts: 205 Joined: 30-Jul-2012 Last visit: 28-Nov-2022 Location: International waters
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Here is a good Erowid article about LSD stability: https://www.erowid.org/c...s/lsd/lsd_article2.shtmlBasically, a 1951 vial of Sandoz LSD was cracked open at a gathering in celebration of Hofmann's 100th birthday, and the material was bioassayed. The focus was mostly to see if Sandoz LSD had any extra mythical purity compared to street LSD. This was not the case, however they found that the 55 year old LSD crystal was still as viable as before. The crystal was stored casually in a jar in a drawer at varying room temperatures. No potency loss was found. I would venture to guess both blotter and geltabs would be able to outlive you if you store them well (eg. in tinfoil and vacuum sealed to protect from UV and oxygen/moisture, and stored in a cool room). "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion." - Albert Camus
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 03-Mar-2024 Location: the lab
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mrwiggle wrote:so would adding a small amount of tartaric acid to the solution help stabilize it if its a tartate salt? and buffer it from being to high ph...for that matter would citric acid work also that way? maybe, but tartaric acid is advantageous because its a natural d-isomer (preserves the active LSD epimer) "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 278 Joined: 30-Nov-2010 Last visit: 06-Apr-2017
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benzyme..any suggestions concerning the ideal amounts of cyclodextrin and tartaric acid to add for a batch? ive received the trans dermal download in the apousal lounge
no disease could possibly survive in such a wiggly environment!
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 628 Joined: 31-Dec-2016 Last visit: 23-Oct-2017
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Put it in an air tight container and store at the lowest temperature possible. Lower temperatures will slow down almost all chemical reactions.
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