One of the interesting characteristics of DMT is that it sometimes inspires fear - this marks the experience as existentially authentic. One of the interesting approaches to evaluating such a compound is to see how eager people are to do it a second time. A touch of terror gives the stamp of validity to the experience because it means, "This is real." We are in the balance. We read the literature, we know the maximum doses, the LD-50, and so on. But nevertheless, so great is one's faith in the mind that when one is out in it one comes to feel that the rules of pharmacology do not really apply and that control of existence on that plane is really a matter of focus of will and good luck.

I'm not saying that there's something intrinsically good about terror. I'm saying that, granted the situation, if one is not terrified then one must be somewhat out of contact with the full dynamics of what is happening. To not be terrified means either that one is a fool or that one has taken a compound that paralyzes the ability to be terrified. I have nothing against hedonism, and I certainly bring something out of it. But the experience must move one's heart, and it will not move the heart unless it deals with the issues of life and death. If it deals with life and death it will move one to fear, it will move one to tears, it will move one to laughter. These places are profoundly strange and alien. -terence McKenna

the experience must move one's heart, and it will not move the heart unless it deals with the issues of life and death. If it deals with life and death it will move one to fear, it will move one to tears, it will move one to laughter.

Being monkeys, when we encounter a translinguistic object, a kind of cognitive dissonance is set up in our hindbrain. We try to pour language over it and it sheds it like water off a duck's back. We try again and fail again, and this cognitive dissonance, this "wow" or "flutter" that is building off this object causes wonder, astonishment and awe at the brink of terror

nobody ever went into an Ashram with their knees knocking in fear
over the tremendous dimension they knew they were about to enter through
meditation.” -terence mckenna

--

Once you find psychedelics you’re not looking for the accelerator anymore. You’re looking for the brakes on your spiritual vehicle. You have suddenly found the means to achieve the stated goal, which is union with the divine, or oneness, or something like that." -terence mckenba

Well, people often – yes, wondered. Often people wonder. You get into a place where it’s so unfamiliar that the question comes up: Have I done it this time? You know, Am I dying? or Am I in danger? The answer is, the odds are incredible against you being seriously in danger. People don’t die from psychedelics unless they have heart conditions or some incredibly rare medical condition. The problem is that the ego feels threatened by the boundary dissolution, and its ace is your self-identification with it. And it can actually say to you, You are dying, and here’s the evidence; and you have to say,. It’s unlikely. – and sing your way through it. But this is really tough. I mean, the Buddhists talk about slaying the ego – this is slaying the ego for real. You must slay it, otherwise it will spread panic into your whole psychological system, will give way to panic and hysteria.

this situation in the middle east, much could be said about it, What's happening is that 8% of the world's people use 35% of the world's petroleum, and are ready to blow everybody off the map to keep it that way. This is nothing more than a manifestation of junkie psychology on a mass scale. We're addicted, they got it, we're happy to pay for it, but if they won't sell it we'll break into their house and take it, because by god it will go into our right arm. that's the plan. -t. Mckenna

it's a world where leather habitual activities can never the less not be controlled, and it's a perfect example of culture with "lock-jaw" of the mind, I mean we are just going to March off the edge of a cliff apparently. Three days ago in the new York Times in the new York Times the American estimates of casualties in the first 30 days of successfully invading Kuwait and Baghdad were published 50,000 American casualties in the first 30 days, if we win, this is the number of people that died in the Viet nam war over the whole stretch of the war, well, so then if you win, means, you know, standing in the middle of a sea of fire with five hundred fifty million enraged Arabs looking to cut you down. It's a complete misunderstanding, and I mention it not only because it looms large in our future, , I mean I think, you know, we are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic sitting here talking about this, it's basically June of 1939 and everyone is planning their summer vacation in the Catskills. It's also an example of how these institutions can't save them selves, I mean everybody knew in 1973 that this moment would come, that policies needed to be put in place, a dollar a barrel tax on oil, some minor minor thing, but, no, it's just a mindset that is self-destructive, and you know, the fundamentalists are in anticipation of the end of the world and so forth and so on, and there isn't going to be any end of the world, there's no easy way out like that, and you're hearing this from the prophet of 2012, all of these fantasies, all of these infantile fantasies will be acted out, so, you know, if you want your mini-apocalypse you can have it, and we can bomb Baghdad and gas tel-Aviv, and fire the oil sands, and kill millions of people on both sides, and you know what, it ain't gonna bring the guy from Galilee, and it ain't going to bring friendly flying saucers from arturis, all its going to bring is a deeper, bigger mess for the human race to try and clean up, anybody who thinks, you know, that you can save the world by setting it on fire is going to be sadly disappointed. -terence mckenna

this situation in the middle east, much could be said about it, What's happening is that 8% of the world's people use 35% of the world's petroleum, and are ready to blow everybody off the map to keep it that way. This is nothing more than a manifestation of junkie psychology on a mass scale. We're addicted, they got it, we're happy to pay for it, but if they won't sell it we'll break into their house and take it, because by god it will go into our right arm. that's the plan.

...

it's a world where leather habitual activities can never the less not be controlled, and it's a perfect example of culture with "lock-jaw" of the mind, I mean we are just going to March off the edge of a cliff apparently. Three days ago in the new York Times in the new York Times the American estimates of casualties in the first 30 days of successfully invading Kuwait and Baghdad were published 50,000 American casualties in the first 30 days, if we win, this is the number of people that died in the Viet nam war over the whole stretch of the war, well, so then if you win, means, you know, standing in the middle of a sea of fire with five hundred fifty million enraged Arabs looking to cut you down. It's a complete misunderstanding, and I mention it not only because it looms large in our future, , I mean I think, you know, we are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic sitting here talking about this, it's basically June of 1939 and everyone is planning their summer vacation in the Catskills. It's also an example of how these institutions can't save them selves, I mean everybody knew in 1973 that this moment would come, that policies needed to be put in place, a dollar a barrel tax on oil, some minor minor thing, but, no, it's just a mindset that is self-destructive, and you know, the fundamentalists are in anticipation of the end of the world and so forth and so on, and there isn't going to be any end of the world, there's no easy way out like that, and you're hearing this from the prophet of 2012, all of these fantasies, all of these infantile fantasies will be acted out, so, you know, if you want your mini-apocalypse you can have it, and we can bomb Baghdad and gas tel-Aviv, and fire the oil sands, and kill millions of people on both sides, and you know what, it ain't gonna bring the guy from Galilee, and it ain't going to bring friendly flying saucers from arturis, all its going to bring is a deeper, bigger mess for the human race to try and clean up, anybody who thinks, you know, that you can save the world by setting it on fire is going to be sadly disappointed.
-terence mckenna; history ends in green, tape 6

Most substances provide an illusion, a false sense of well-being, numbness, or euphoria, most substances are used to escape, and are often used to escape the exact issues one is forced to confront while in a DMT flash...

I don't understand frequent DMT use, again, for as much as I am fascinated by this compound, and for as much of my life that I dedicate to it, it's always incredibly hard to bring myself to use it...I really have to prepare myself.

I used to brakedown in tears, I've learned to control that

Many will try to make the argument that entheogens are the "easy" path to spirituality, that it's an escape...

it's not an escape, during these experiences your forced to confront the issues which most people try to avoid through out the entirety of their life, not taking entheogens seems like an escape from having to confront these issues...and believe me, it's not easy, the Entheogenic path is actually one of the most difficult (and most rewarding) paths which one can embark on...





I don't know what it is, I can't get rolling on this topic...

-eg

This this this!
I dont know if its in the same talk, but Terence also says something like; If you are not terrifyed and shaken to your core by the magnitude of the experience, then you are a fool or have taken a substance that prevents you from feeling feeling fear.

I think it is during the same talk that he also suggests that an experience that doesn't move your heart can't be real.
To cry and to laugh, to beeing scared shitless, that is real!

One of the interesting characteristics of DMT is that it sometimes inspires fear - this marks the experience as existentially authentic. One of the interesting approaches to evaluating such a compound is to see how eager people are to do it a second time. A touch of terror gives the stamp of validity to the experience because it means, "This is real." We are in the balance. We read the literature, we know the maximum doses, the LD-50, and so on. But nevertheless, so great is one's faith in the mind that when one is out in it one comes to feel that the rules of pharmacology do not really apply and that control of existence on that plane is really a matter of focus of will and good luck.

I'm not saying that there's something intrinsically good about terror. I'm saying that, granted the situation, if one is not terrified then one must be somewhat out of contact with the full dynamics of what is happening. To not be terrified means either that one is a fool or that one has taken a compound that paralyzes the ability to be terrified. I have nothing against hedonism, and I certainly bring something out of it. But the experience must move one's heart, and it will not move the heart unless it deals with the issues of life and death. If it deals with life and death it will move one to fear, it will move one to tears, it will move one to laughter. These places are profoundly strange and alien. -terence mckenna

it's a world where leather habitual activities can never the less not be controlled, and it's a perfect example of culture with "lock-jaw" of the mind, I mean we are just going to March off the edge of a cliff apparently. Three days ago in the new York Times in the new York Times the American estimates of casualties in the first 30 days of successfully invading Kuwait and Baghdad were published 50,000 American casualties in the first 30 days, if we win, this is the number of people that died in the Viet nam war over the whole stretch of the war, well, so then if you win, means, you know, standing in the middle of a sea of fire with five hundred fifty million enraged Arabs looking to cut you down. It's a complete misunderstanding, and I mention it not only because it looms large in our future, , I mean I think, you know, we are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic sitting here talking about this, it's basically June of 1939 and everyone is planning their summer vacation in the Catskills. It's also an example of how these institutions can't save them selves, I mean everybody knew in 1973 that this moment would come, that policies needed to be put in place, a dollar a barrel tax on oil, some minor minor thing, but, no, it's just a mindset that is self-destructive, and you know, the fundamentalists are in anticipation of the end of the world and so forth and so on, and there isn't going to be any end of the world, there's no easy way out like that, and you're hearing this from the prophet of 2012, all of these fantasies, all of these infantile fantasies will be acted out, so, you know, if you want your mini-apocalypse you can have it, and we can bomb Baghdad and gas tel-Aviv, and fire the oil sands, and kill millions of people on both sides, and you know what, it ain't gonna bring the guy from Galilee, and it ain't going to bring friendly flying saucers from arturis, all its going to bring is a deeper, bigger mess for the human race to try and clean up, anybody who thinks, you know, that you can save the world by setting it on fire is going to be sadly disappointed.
-terence mckenna; history ends in green, tape 6

it's a world where lethal habitual activities can never the less not be controlled, and it's a perfect example of culture with "lock-jaw" of the mind, I mean we are just going to March off the edge of a cliff apparently. Three days ago in the new York Times the American estimates of casualties in the first 30 days of successfully invading Kuwait and Baghdad were published, 50,000 American casualties in the first 30 days, IF we win, this is the number of people that died in the Viet nam war over the whole stretch of the war, well, so then if you win, means, you know, standing in the middle of a sea of fire with five hundred fifty million enraged Arabs looking to cut you down. It's a complete misunderstanding, and I mention it not only because it looms large in our future, I mean, I think, you know, we are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic sitting here talking about this, it's basically June of 1939 and everyone is planning their summer vacation in the Catskills.
It's also an example of how these institutions can't save them selves, I mean everybody knew in 1973 that this moment would come, that policies needed to be put in place, a dollar a barrel tax on oil, some minor minor thing, but, no, it's just a mindset that is self-destructive, and you know, the fundamentalists are in anticipation of the end of the world and so forth and so on, and there isn't going to be any end of the world, there's no easy way out like that, and you're hearing this from the prophet of 2012, all of these fantasies, all of these infantile fantasies will be acted out, so, you know, if you want your mini-apocalypse you can have it, and we can bomb Baghdad and gas tel-Aviv, and fire the oil sands, and kill millions of people on both sides, and you know what, it ain't gonna bring the guy from Galilee, and it ain't going to bring friendly flying saucers from arturis, all its going to bring is a deeper, bigger mess for the human race to try and clean up, anybody who thinks, you know, that you can save the world by setting it on fire is going to be sadly disappointed.
-terence mckenna; history ends in green, tape 6

This was in my initial post but I will repost it because I think it was what you were speaking about.

-eg

There are a lot of wannabe experts running around who didn't take enough, because you have to take a lot -- not a LOT -- but you have to take a frightening amount to get into what it's really about. People who have taken, you know, 50 gamma of LSD or 100 gamma of LSD or two grams of mushrooms or something like that, they are not qualified to hold forth on the nature of the psychedelic experience, because those doses don't deliver it to you. What they deliver is the periphery of the psychedelic experience: accelerated thought processes, a kind of depth and richness to cognition that is unfamiliar, an ability to analyze situations from unusual perspectives, or to reach unexpected conclusions. -terence McKenna

Just read through this thread, really deep stuff I must say.

I personally think that the entheogenic path is a completely valid path to spirituality, just as valid as meditation, yoga, Tantra and all the other well-accepted spiritual practices.

I think when it comes to spirituality, it's less about the specific practice you employ and moar about how you use the spiritual practice to improve your own life and the lives of others.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

I love to dig at the 'Yogans' by saying “nobody ever went into an Ashram with their knees knocking in fear over the tremendous dimension they knew they were about to enter through meditation.” -terence McKenna

I just don’t resonate with believers in anything. I get insulting to Buddhists for God’s sake. It’s just something about their smugness and their whole bit, I just want to squash it. So you can imagine how I behave in the presence of scientologists and the rest of it. Belief is again, it’s a form of infantilism. There are no grounds for believing anything.

-terence McKenna

At death, the thing that casts the shadow withdraws, and metabolism ceases. Material form breaks down; it ceases to be a dissipative structure in a very localized area, sustained against entropy by cycling material in, extracting energy, and expelling waste. But the form that ordered it is not affected. These declarative statements are made from the point of view of the shamanic tradition, which touches all higher religions. Both the psychedelic dream state and the waking psychedelic state acquire great import because they reveal to life a task: to become familiar with this dimension that is causing being, in order to be familiar with it at the moment of passing from life.

The metaphor of a vehicle--an after-death vehicle, an astral body--is used by several traditions. Shamanism and certain yogas, including Taoist yoga, claim very clearly that the purpose of life is to familiarize oneself with this after-death body so that the act of dying will not create confusion in the psyche. One will recognize what is happening. One will know what to do and one will make a clean break. Yet there does seem to be the possibility of a problem in dying. It is not the case that one is condemned to eternal life. One can muff it through ignorance.

Apparently at the moment of death there is a kind of separation, like birth--the metaphor is trivial, but perfect. There is a possibility of damage or of incorrect activity. The English poet-mystic William Blake said that as one starts into the spiral there is the possibility of falling from the golden track into eternal death. Yet it is only a crisis of a moment--a crisis of passage--and the whole purpose of shamanism and of life correctly lived is to strengthen the soul and to strengthen the ego's relationship to the soul so that this passage can be cleanly made. This is the traditional position...

What psychedelics encourage, and where I hope attention will focus once hallucinogens are culturally integrated to the point where large groups of people can plan research programs without fear of persecution, is the modeling of the after-death state. Psychedelics may do more than model this state; they may reveal the nature of it. Psychedelics will show us that the modalities of appearance and understanding can be shifted so that we can know mind within the context of the One Mind. The One Mind contains all experiences of the Other. There is no dichotomy between the Newtonian universe, deployed throughout light-years of three-dimensional space, and the interior mental universe. They are adumbrations of the same thing.

We perceive them as unresolvable dualisms because of the low quality of the code we customarily use. The language we use to discuss this problem has built-in dualisms. This is a problem of language. All codes have relative code qualities, except the Logos. The Logos is perfect and, therefore, partakes of no quality other than itself. I am here using the word Logos in the sense in which Philo Judaeus uses it--that of the Divine Reason that embraces the archetypal complex of Platonic ideas that serve as the models of creation. As long as one maps with something other than the Logos, there will be problems of code quality. The dualism built into our language makes the death of the species and the death of the individual appear to be opposed things.-terence McKenna

As the esoteric traditions say, life is an opportunity to prepare for death

ND: You have said that an important part of the mystical quest is to face up to death and recognize it as a rhythm of life. Would you like to enlarge on your view on the implications of the dying process?

TM: I take seriously the notion that these psychedelic states are an anticipation of the dying process-or, as the Tibetans refer to it, the Bardo level beyond physical death. It seems likely that our physical lives are a type of launching pad for the soul. As the esoteric traditions say, life is an opportunity to prepare for death, and we should learn to recognize the signposts along the way, so that when death comes, we can make the transition smoothly. I think the psychedelics show you the transcendental nature of reality. It would be hard to die gracefully as an atheist or existentialist. Why should you? Why not rage against the dying of the light? But if in fact this is not the dying of the light but the Dawning of the Great Light, then one should certainly not rage against that. There's a tendency in the New Age to deny death. We have people pursuing physical immortality and freezing their heads until the fifth millennium, when they can be thawed out. All of this indicates a lack of balance or equilibrium. The Tao flows through the realms of life and nonlife with equal ease. -terence McKenna

The world of DMT is incredibly vast. What DMT opens in us is so profound that it is impossible to truly express. I have been making, using, and initiating people into DMT use, for around 40 years. I was the one who first discovered that the free-base could be smoked. It has never ceased to amaze me, nor have I ever felt that one could fairly arrive at any hard and fast conclusions about what was happening during a DMT trip -Nick sand

Any attempts to begin to describe the DMT experience is fraught with the immediate dangers of either over-simplification or a swift flight into metaphor since it is almost impossible to describe with words alone the fantastic swirling multi-faceted gateway visions that are only the beginning of the DMT experience. Intrepid travelers report that past these jeweled-gates can be found mechanical-Elves, Aliens, Egyptian Gods, temples, pyramids, and palaces of pulsating light, and some would say, the entire possible population of the Collective Unconsciousness. A magical place where the totality of phenomenal existence can be experienced in an often terrifying transpersonal flash.

* No two DMT experiences are alike, and no two people should expect any similarity in their individual experiences. (Unless, in one of the many mysteries of the DMT zone, two experiences are indeed shared as One!) It is commonly said that DMT causes far many more questions than it does answers; for it is a flowerbed for all the mystery in the Universe. Mystery is an increasingly difficult thing to find in our Fact-or-Fiction society but the on-going mapping of this tryptamine accessed Inter-Zone may ultimately lead to the birth of powerful new spiritual metaphors for Mankind, and a new Mythology great enough to both resonate within us and encompass the incredible Universe we all occupy. So in this section, you will find collated here a number of DMT accounts as recounted by different psychonauts over the last 40 years, each one mapping out a small piece of this mysterious 8th continent of the Mind.
http://www.dmtsite.com/d...tions_of_experience.html

Though, I feel the Entheogenic path is the most valid.

It's the only spirituality that is not based on dogma, political hierarchies, books and churches, and so on...

... these traditions talk about spirituality, while entheogen users actually experience spirituality first hand. No books, no priests, no ritual, just you, an entheogen, and an experience, the entheogen is the priest and teacher, the entheogen is the book, the entheogen is the church...

Those who claim it's "escaspist" or "hedonistic" are kidding themselves, this is the only path where you forced to confront and face spirituality at its core, whether you like it or not...

terence McKenna said "We can tell shit from shinola, it's just that we don't always prefer shinola"

...people know that the Entheogenic experience provides true spirituality, yet they prefer yoga, or meditation, or something softer, something which speaks about itself like it is the Entheogenic experience, but never presents any risks of actually causing life transforming change...

It can happen by many means, though I feel entheogens should be the preferred route, they are the most effective, the most reliable, and the safest means of inducing these experiences.

-eg

I don't think there can be a "most valid" path. There are just paths, and you take your choice which one to follow. Some people, probably many, aren't suited to something as mind blowing as the entheogenic experience so perhaps a softer experience which can cause gradual change for a person is a better choice of path for them. There's no rush.

I don't think there can be a "most valid" path. There are just paths, and you take your choice which one to follow. Some people, probably many, aren't suited to something as mind blowing as the entheogenic experience so perhaps a softer experience which can cause gradual change for a person is a better choice of path for them. There's no rush.

You have to somehow give people an experience--an experience that is not somebody else's experience--their experience, that radically recrystallizes their understanding of the world. -terence McKenna