Wikipedia said to have up to 3% of alkaloids mostly dmt. I have make a search but still i can not find anyone to report his yields. What i want is the people who have made a brachystachys extraction to report their yields so we could have a better knowledge of this plant. We can see then if brachy is better than "AQ1" or "red nedicine"

Wikipedia is not a good source for up to date information on the actual alkaloid makeup or content of Phalaris grass species.

3% is really pushing it. I have yet to see anyone reporting even 1% yields with brachystachys, but it might be possible.

My problem with brachystachys, was getting enough for any kind of extraction. It never grew very well where I am and I abandoned it for aquatica, which has given me enough plant material to extract and active yields of mixed tryptamines.

The reality is that, the data you are looking for, is more or less non-existent.

Be a pioneer.

Jamie,
I got confused too with information about phalaris
Did you reported your extraction and yields somewhere? I struggle to find a clear example of successful extract of phalaris - if you know any

in the vast nexian archives, we find successful crystals and good yields have been obtained from Phalaris brachystachys in the past,

see this Phalaris tek by fourthripley > https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=28869

which obtained the crystals pictured below

"1200g of foliage harvested in September 2010 yielded 90mg of alkaloid compared to the 25mg recovered from 1200g from September"


1200g fresh p. brachy --> 180g dry p. brachy (85% water)

180g = 180.000 mg and yields 90mg of DMT. So the % alkaloid content is 0.05% in this example!! Far away from 3%

With 25mg is 0.0138%

I lost the paper long ago, I may have just seen it in the agronomy library in college, but I thought I remembered that what happened was the original work stated 3 mg% DMT in fresh brachystachys which was an antiquated way of saying 3 mg per 100 grams (mg per cent... per 100) and when the data got transcribed people just screwed it up not knowing that mg% was a real thing and called it 3%.

3mg% from 1200g fresh brachystachys would give a yield of 36mg. Which fits comfortably between 25mg and 90mg.

..while i appreciate this empirical query UpAndDown
i also feel the need to say - i don't have time to do google searches for nexians at the moment, but there is more info if one digs a little deeper..on Phalaris generally and P. brachystachys..but wikipedia is not a trusted source really for most of this plant alkaloid info, like jamie says..

in that thread linked we find a little later on
benzyme:
digging deeper we find benzyme also tested Jorkest's extract, as in: Phalaris Brachystachy - STB - Xylene Extraction - then FASA

which seems to be 115mg 'dmt' from around 5 grams dry weight grass..not bad

but, there are a couple of Phalaris points this line of enquiry brings to mind for me..

1) Plants (especially very polyploidal species like Phalaris) vary greatly, including seasonally..except for a clone (and even then seasonal and nutrient factors vary) we can't ever give a 'true' % for such a species, only a range..
over the years, even before the internet really existed with forums etc, i've heard of many many phalaris experiments..there are lower yields and higher yields (less common), which is why the Nexus has done a lot of work to identify and test particular strains or genotypes, an ongoing work

2) Experimentation is still where most Phalaris work is at...i'd say, from the many reports i've heard over the years, the general average Phalaris yields are 0.1-0.3%..given how abundant some stands of some species are, this is still something to be grateful for..a bit more work for a free gift from nature, that can even grow in Iceland!
..the highest Phalaris alkaloid contents i'm aware are the Italian AQ1 clone (1% DMT of dry weight) and also in a paper i posted somewhere on the nexus, i recall alkaloid content upper range (on another Phalaris species) at 1.5%..but i've used up my search the nexus time quota today...
but these percentages are out there to be found..looking for "3%" in anything would seem a bit over-hopeful..


from that linked thread:
fourthripley:

Harvested in 8 weeks? In my experience, brachystachys sown in fall and harvested in winter is pretty weak compared to its spring version. Brachystachys's maximum content is over 1 percent for sure and 3 percent could very well be observed in right conditions and with right strain. I can imagine this.



Yes. Brachystachys is consistent and true to seed but still varies according to season and conditions.



That's 2.3%. Higher than all other Phalaris and all the popular dmt bearing plants.

I believe just like smaller snakes and scorpions have evolved to be more venemous as defense to compensate for the smaller body (smaller phangs for snakes, smaller grasping pincers for scorpions) plants slower in growth vigour and biomass like brachystachys logically should compensate with higher toxicity to survive being eaten by insects and foraging animals.

It's only logical that they will produce higher tryptamines than other phalaris species.

From my own experience it seems brachystachys in winter had only DMT present. Drank orally the effects starts within 10 mins or so but are very mild. Full effects starts within an hour. It wasn't strong enough to cause objects to morph until i was at the peak of the experience when I seen a tree shadow on a wall at night morphine to a human being smoking a cigarette . It was till the next night that I noticed the same shadow and realized it was just a tree shadow swaying in the wind. Generally the experience was mild but had all the features of DMT head space and closed eye visuals.. very geometrical, small midgets, flying saucers and advanced machinery built from light, chaotic in nature but was grounded somewhat by rue.

The combination of brachys and rue was well balanced. It was technological and organic and ritual both at the same time.

The whole experience was akin to an avatar movie world where biology, spirituality and technology was all infused together. Overall a very gentle and beautiful experience very gentle in the body. There wasn't even a chance for me to abuse the experience to focus on the pleasure side of things and ignore the teachings. Every time I tried to get lost in the Euphoria and erotic nature of the experience rue seemed to bring me back to the important themes and topics I need to confront in my life. Rue in this drink was imposing itself like an old wise man making sure I stay on the right path although in a friendly gentle way.

It's just a shame that brachystachys isn't harvest friendly and cannot just keep harvesting every couple to three weeks from it like with aquatica.

I'll always prefer grass tea with rue every single time over smoked Extract but I haven't found brachystachys to be sustainable harvest wise. It will Always have a special place in my heart. Maybe the right way to use this species is to plant large number of it and make one large harvest in kilos in spring so it can sustain one for a good number of experiences throught the rest of the year.

Like harvest a large batch, fully dry it and place it in a ziplock bag with a porous selica gel bag inside for a dessicator along with a porous bag of fine iron powder to suck up all the oxygen. Then vacume seal the ziplock and further seal edges with a hot knife. I can't think of a reason why the grass wouldn't preserve for years this way. Prepare as many ziplocks this way and consume one bag each month?

Thanks for the report sidhi. Wait till you experience it in full power in the spring ;-)

Also, I believe with right technique and dedication, it is possible to get potentially huge yields. The number of seeds produced is insane and in the right conditions the biomass becomes similar to aquatica. Also, on my first cultivation experience I was able to make three harvests. I doubt you can make regular harvests with aquatica with the potency and vigor decreasing each time, so they might not be that different. The solid advantage of aquatica is the perennial nature. But I have yet to see an aquatica strain that is suitable for ayahuasca analogue use.

This year is my second cultivation experience and I have made some mistakes. Too early harvest offsetting development, planting them all crammed up on each other stunting growth, and also in a place not having a lot of sun. Just hoping to get a lot of seeds and do it the proper way next time.

Finding an aquatica that has hordenine (Much less toxic with rue) instead of tyramine will fix that check the phalaris analysis thread for AQ1 there was no tyramine in there only hordenine and AQ1 have been drank with rue by many safely. I never extracted from my cultivar without getting a useful amount for exploration. Most the time the extract was strong to average in strength. Average was my most favourite. even mild extracts gets pretty interesting when I smoke larger volumes. Only last Extract was too mild for my liking but then again at the time of harvest there was a cold wind spell and temperatures dropped up to 3 celcius at night.

I extracted brachystachys twice within same period last year and receiving almost nothing. This is the picture I am getting from my experiments. I'm even tempted now to try aquatica orally with rue. But prefer to have a sample analysed by Endlessness first just to be more sure. I hope I get to send him two extracts one in this cold spell and another in spring and we'll see what's in it and compare the difference.

To me it appeared that the incompatibility of aquatica and rue is beyond just tyramine hypertension. Then again I never tried drying and simmering different strains. I did eventually find out that drying and simmering is necessary with all grass when combining with rue. Otherwise a consciousness poison is felt. Like an antinutrient compared to dmt which is a nutrient. I tried drying and simmering the 5 meo dominant strain and it still blocked all psychological processes so it did not help. I also tried it with truncata and it didn't make it functional either.

Order some AQ1 perhaps ? Sorry but I have yet to try any phalaris and experience toxicity. Did you ever think of the possibility that 5 meo is just not for you orally? There's a certain enzyme beside MAO that breaks down 5meo to bufotenine ...the genome for this enzyme is polymorphic....that is each person can have different expression of this enzyme. While someone can take oral 5meo with rue without issue someone else can experience a serotonin syndrome.

Maybe that's what's going on? If I had my aquatica tested and drank it without perceiving any toxicity or ill effects would you bee keen to try it?

I love 5 meo orally as it is in phragmites. And I recognized the 5 meo in aquatica and the toxicity effect is from something else. I explained all of it to you a few times. Don't want to go in circles. Grass is more complex than classic tryptamines and tyramines. You drank phalaris with rue only twice and both were brachystachys. Keep exploring. I've done my fair share. Also, what initially appears to be a mind blowing glamorous experience can later be seen for its unhealthy nature with more mature and clear eyes. You yourself write of abuse and abusing experiences. Having a drug experience and working with a medicine for healing are worlds apart, the opposite actually. This forum should not be your only resource on working with entheogens as it might give you the impression like it's all about molecules, extractions, effects. Even with perfectly healthy medicines, how you approach it is what determines whether it will be healing or damaging. I'm not kidding, you can seriously mess yourself (neurologically, psychologically, spiritually) up with these plants/medicines/drugs with unconscious use. The most obvious risk is, they are very good in creating illusions and you can go really deep into destructive paths. And thats just thr tip of the iceberg. Be very careful... You know I don't endorse smoking, and frequent smoking is like a sure way to get damaged.

P.S you mentioned sharing smoking extracts to be a practical way to awaken people. In the end you will also see that there is no shortcut to awakening and the easier and faster an experience, the more temporary and fleeting any benefit is. Temporary expansion of consciousness and awakening in life are two different things. What you think is awakening you can actually be fertilizing your unconsciousness in the long term.

Damn those are some serious warnings! Am not taking them lightly either just so you know.

But just to clear things up for you and everyone reading. I was thinking the same concerns as you describe after first smoked experience in autumn. I was shaken to my core it was the most frightening mind breaking experience of my life and thought I would never touch aquatica ever again after that experience. Now that first time around as I was coming up I really did think I really fucked up! Thought I lost it and fucked up my brain and it kept rising and rising up till I was annihilated ! Now that's an extract which I seriously think could fuck me up for good if I smoke it enough times.

I did held this believe that this isn't an extract I want to be smoking on the regular and maybe even meant as a one time only thing no matter how wholesome and great I was feeling for the next few days afterwards. It was just too horribly powerful. You might even say I was left traumatized.

That is until I gathered the courage to smoke an extract from a second harvest 3 weeks later give or take. I started veeeeery cautiously and nervously taking very small tokes. To my surprise there was almost no fear. It welcomed me with utmost love and compassion. I know you don't believe in smoked extracts and think they are without a soul and just molecules but I could swear it felt as guiding and healing in a way not very different from my first iral brachystachys with rue. It was even shamanic. Few days later I grab the same joint on New year at midnight and take a bigger hit. I fall back in my furry seat ...eyes tearing up from shear happiness and wholesomeness. There were beautiful childhood flashbacks from camping out at night ..amazing wildlife sounds at night especially owls. Smell of charcoal pile cooking up as we sat next to it watching the stars in the dim night. I looked up at the sky from that flashback and took me at the speed of light up into space ...words will fail me every single time to describe how wholesome this whole vision felt. A sense of well being and inner warmth. It was the complete opposite of first extract.

You can try convince me as much as you like how extracts got no soul but this one most definitely had a guiding soul. I felt it's presence .. that soul is my ally and the truest I got to experiencing a medicine.

The difference between first and second harvest is that second harvest was mainly from a second aquatica specimen...even though I thought they all were clones from the same parent as the owner of this cultivar told me but these two aquaticas even look diffrent. This second aquatica looks so large youd think it's a reed not a phalaris.

Later harvests felt a bit weaker but they maintained the same gentleness and guiding soul. When we smoked this extract as a group of friends passing around the joint everyone was glowing vibrant. Positivity was shining through... conversations on the come down were the most interesting conversations we've ever had while together. I run everything that's happened in my mind over and over ...extracted again and tried it with the same people once more and same result. The only thing negative that I had in mind at the come down was if my chloroform was clean enough as a solvent that's it.

The extract itself feels extremely safe and kind. Instead of the explosion of nothingness on the first extract in auntums ..later Extracts were an explosion of LOVE .

Sorry that you feel I am discrediting your own experience with aquatica as toxic to consciousness and I can tell that your patience is running out with me trying to explain this to me lol but the picture am getting is that aquatica in general..or least mine is not to be approached in autumn after first regrowth..and just leave it to grow till winter sets in and alkaloid will change to milder that's when it's most healing and loving..

Not every Tryptamine entheogen has to be drank with rue to be wholesome and complete as medicine. I don't want to constrain myself within that confinement. Neither I am buying into the notion that plant soul is lost in extractions.

I really appreciate the warnings and I know you genuinely are concerned and for that I am grateful to you but I truly think that if you had tried the extract I am describing I bet that you would realize how you are confining yourself unecessarily to a rigid belief without actually being open to explore the possibility of other routes.

I have put considerable effort and focus into growing these plants caring to them lovingly harvesting them...cooking and extracting and the whole time am communicating to the plant what I am seeking ...and thinking of all what I want to work on within myself. The whole process of preparing these extracts is meditative for me...as I'm working with this grass its personality is shaping up and becoming clearer ...I'm getting to know this new ally and respect it's boundaries and explore its path...in its own unique way.

I also learnt that worrying too much before an experience can be like a self fulfilling prophecy... You worry about having a bad experience you get one. While I want to be always careful with every first toke from a new Extract I don't want to take those warnings so much to heart till they start to affect the experience and convince myself that am ruining my mental health and psyche.

To each their own I guess. By the way speaking of toxicity did you know that strichnine the rat poison is used by athletes in minute quantities as a doping agent? Hamilton Morris did try it on himself.. Alexander shulgin synthesized new psychoactive substances starting by very low doses as well and going up gradually. I could try the same method with this aquatica strain orally. Maybe start with 10g fresh after rue. If no effects were perceived I can go for 15g from the SE harvest.. then 20 and 25 g... Prior to this I can run an HPLC with mass spectrometry in this grass to feel safer .. if any signs of toxicity to consciousness as you describe appears I will most definitely record my whole experience and come back to it and ask all the necessary questions before moving on to higher doage and will share with you ..

Maybe you could even help me with the appropriate questions to ask.

Never once did I say extracts dont have a soul. It is the paradigm of getting a quick fix, no matter how wholesome the source plant is, that to me is something to be weary of. It may be good initially but in the long term it just has a too high risk of being intentionally or unintentionally abused and having unforeseen consequences. I am long past the "blasting myself off" stage my friend. I've done a lot of it in the past, I've been working with these plants since 2009. Once again, I might be treated like an alien here for saying this, and this place might not be where I should be hanging out, but the ceremony paradigm that I know is one that has at least a few days of physical, energetic, spiritual preparation and also serious dedication to the healing process for at least a few days after. Yes I get it, it is obvious that powerful experiences are quite the substance of this practice, but the actual thing, the real thing the only thing that matters is the deep inner healing process that is intended and triggered and is worked on. And this process can never be confined into an experience, smoked or drank. This practice is not about experiences. It is about you. And it requires so much more resources than just creating and ingesting a strong, pure substance. If you are interested in this, let me know and we can talk about it privately. But all this substance and experience focus is not good for me anymore and I cannot continue. For this alien writing here, it is diet and fasting which brings actual healing and ingesting entheogens in their absence just scrambles him up more. And he believes this is true for other aliens living outside of this forum's planet.

What we all talk about with Phalaris on the DMT-nexus forum is mostly subjective musings as personal bioassays without concrete scientific verification can not be considered absolute truth for the plants. One day you might get a bunch of good tryptamines, the next it may yield you close to nothing.

Without pictures and definitive alkaloid analysis we're sort of left in the dark in a way, and that can feel defeating especially when you've had a life-changing experience with the grass.
Most of us live in different regions with different soil types, microbes, sunlight, rainfall, etc. so it is hard to make conclusions on what these grasses can do. Research has demonstrated that grass can sometimes be consistent, often times not. I'm sure many Phalaris DMT plant extract failures were because someone misidentified the grass and rushed to post their results then gave up. There is absolutely no easy answer to Phalaris grass and it's going to take us underground plant enthusiasts much longer to piece together concrete facts about this grass than it'd be if we all had expensive laboratory equipment, funding and were able to legally pursue our interests with these plants.
Phalaris has offered me medicine but in my real life I am very leery about recommending people to seek this medicine out if they're not already deeply involved in researching this. Understanding the alkaloids, their derivates and the effects of the alkaloids is crucial to exploring these grasses safely and not pushing yourself into your own echo-chamber of ideas that are true to you but may not be true to everyone else. With magical plants, they may often defy science/pharmacology but we have to remember that we're humans and we have egos so we may live our own truths but shouldn't press those onto other people.

These grasses have the potential to replace trees used in biofuels, paper and pulp production and provide cereal crops(P. Canariensis, P. Caroliniana) that may help to reduce deforestation and give gluten-free nutritious foods to people with diabetes and celiac disease. Phalaris(Arundinacea, Aquatica) is a strong contender in bioremediation projects as drought brings on fires and fires affect soils and increase devastating flooding. On top of the benefits that Phalaris provides the Earth with to enhance ecosystems and farming being devastated from biotechnology and capitalism, the grass also has the potential to heal addiction in humans, provide phytochemicals in the treatment of cancer(P. Coerulescens) and help the individual underground researcher validate their own magical journey with the plants.

There is no simple answers with Phalaris grass. We may just need a little grass by itself every now and again if it is a medicine-friend to us, we don't always need to blast off with Syrian Rue & Phalaris or smoke extracts. There is food and medicine in abundant quantities with these grasses. Hordenine may be in various plants used by humans but we're still unsure as to the potential harm it could cause if mixed with MAOI. Hordenine after all is made from tyramine in the plant, it is N,N-dimethyltyramine, and if stimulant effects are felt with the grasses alone, I would be very cautious mixing that with MAOI in large amounts if any at all. Compared with the amount of alkaloid analysis the public has regarding Phalaris, it makes up for such a small percentage of grass that's out there and it'd be nice to have more consistent results but we don't really have that. Alkaloids change in seasons and so do our lives and our minds. We may be affected very differently drinking and smoking grass throughout the years. Not only the plant constituents, but our own emotional state(set and setting) play a huge role in how we interact with the various properties in the plants. There really is no simple answers with Phalaris grass and I'm happy to see research continue with dear enthusiasm. Phalaris is unique in that this is a grass really with no recorded human entheogenic use and if it turns out that we are part of the first few generations of humans to explore this as medicine, I think that's so lovely and we get a first-hand account of how humans interact with plants, magic and information. The internet can be both a blessing and a curse, as it can feel depressing to post ecstatic results from your experience only to have someone tell you that you're drinking poison or have wishful thinking. These plants have mysterious ways of guiding us and communicating with us. Life is connected, even a single tree is a complete ecosystem in itself, supplying nutrition, shelter and a source of energy for many creatures both big and small, above and below the soil. The internet is a blessing in that there is lots of information at our fingertips that may also save our lives and keep us from overdosing on something harmful, or we'll find like-minded people who may encourage you where others may doubt you. I think it's important though to consider many options and make healthy choices for yourself and not expect others to always agree with you.

As mentioned here, we are offering free testing of Phalaris (and other) plants/extracts

Ive been updating the first post in this thread with published amounts of tryptamines and other compounds in some Phalaris.

As for P. brachystachys, ive been having a hard time finding any concrete numbers. The Festi and Samorini article linked in that first post says that exclusively DMT has been detected as far as tryptamines go, in brachystachys, but no quantitation has been done, and the HPLc method doesnt seem to have included beta carbolines, gramine or tyramine analogues in the search. Id be happy to help publishing a first quantitation of alkaloids in this species.

Lastly, I just want to urge people to be extremely careful with Phalaris. We have some people experimenting with these extracts without doing any sort of analytical testing, and talking about listening to spirits and to how one feels subjectively as the sole means of judging whether the extract is safe or not. Each one to their own of course but IMO that is dangerous because we humans can be mistaken, and damage doesnt have to be noticeable subjectively to be problematic (you can even find cases of people being shot or having stuff go through their brain or large tumors and not even noticing)

Some of the compounds found in Phalaris have very little to no pharmacological studies, and others such as tyramine analogues are known to be cardioactive, increase blood pressure etc. Plus we are talking about combination of these alkaloids which makes it even more of a concern.

Be safe everybody, and let me know if you want things tested.