Greetings brothers and sisters,

What varieties of Peruvian Torch or San Pedro are the most potent? Is this known, and is it possible to obtain seeds from this or these varieties? If not, I think all cacti loving friends in here should help to find the best possible Mescaline source. Look at the net, look at your notes, look in your garden, look in your pots in the window, or even try to crossbreed two good varieties!

Think about how good it will be for all of us, and all of us to come, if we find the best strain(s) and spread them all over the world! I know there are lots of competent people here, join in and create an even more trippy future!

I am myself growing two batches of Peruvian Torch now, both sadly only seedlings. The two batches are obtained from different sources, so my hope is that one of them will prove itself potent. When they are larger, I will definitely test them to see the difference in alkaloid content. I am, however, not sure what kind of Peruvian Torch this is.

According to Wikipedia, these varieties of Peruvian Torch are known:

* var. ancash (KK1688 ), San Marcos, Ancash, northwest Peru.
* var. ayacuchensis (KK2151), southwestern Peru.
* var. cuzcoensis (KK340), Huachac, Cuzco, southeastern Peru.
* var. (H14192), Huntington, EE.UU.
* var. huancabamba, Piura, northwest Peru.
* var. huancavelica (KK242a), west central Peru.
* var. huancayo (KK338 ), west central Peru.
* var. huaraz (KK2152), Ancash, northwestern Peru.
* var. matucana (KK242) Lima, central west Peru.
* var. puquiensis (KK1689), Puquio, Apurímac Region, southwestern Peru.
* var. Rio Lurin (KK2147), Rio Rimac, Lima, west central Peru.
* var. tarmensis (KK2148 ), Tarma, Junin, west central Peru.
* var. trujilloensis, Trujillo, La Libertad, northwestern Peru.

Similarly, also according to Wikipedia, these varieties of San Pedro are known:

* Var. (KK339), Huigra, Chanchán, Southern Ecuador, short spines, light green epidermis.
* Var. (KK591), Loja, Southern Ecuador, short spines, dark green.
* Var. (KK2150), Ayabaca, Northern Perú, very short spines, light green.


What do we know about the rate of growth and potency of these varieties? Is there any other strains out there?

trichocereus bridgesii is actually said to be the strongest trichocereus,but that is because of maoi like compounds not mescaline. There are a lot of crosses already of pedro,bridgesii and torch there's also T. scopulicola with reported success.

getting seeds might not help - you need a cutting, seeds may not carry the high % trait.

I imagine if you grow a lot of seeds of a strain with pretty good genetics you'll get 1 or 2 cacti with good entheogenic properties though right?

It is a honest idea to look for potent cactuses. Kudos to Coatl' for having similar thoughts in the past. SWIM however believes that trying to find highly potent cacti is a very cumbersome task.

The latter is because the "high mescaline content" trait is not only subject of good genetics but growing conditions (i.e. environment). One needs to grow loads and loads of different individuals from each "strain", harvest them at the same time and have a vigorous objective analytical tool for mesc. content as well as a subjective one (good luck tripping all the time, hahaha!)

Usually bioassaying your cactus and adjusting the dosage accordingly (as well as clonally propagating what you think to be a "potent" cactus is a more direct, realistic and much easier method. All the rest require a careful scientific approach, money and time!

The same strain of cactus from the same vendor can contain very potent and less potent cacti.

This is what 69ron told me when i posted a question in this cactus section about tolerance. I had taken a cactus from a strain, from wich i'd had good experiences earlier, but i got only weak effects from it. So i posted a question here;'could i have develloped a high tolerance of mescaline from a week earlier?'.

Ron's answer was that i didn't have develloped a tolerance to mescaline, but that cactusses simply vary greatly in potency.

That makes sense to me.

Growing conditions effects the potency of cacti, but genetics are the bottom line.

Genetics "tell the cactus" how much mescaline they are going to have and growing condition "allow the cactus" to reach levels predetermined by the genetics.... if that makes sense.

I cannot stress how important genetics are when using Trichocereus cacti!

Good post Infundibulum! It IS going to be very hard to do this!

It's best to start with cacti that appear to be "promising" for example I have a "Baker" Bridgesii which was collected from a Shaman's garden in Bolivia, so this clone could be considered promising because we already know it's used by a shaman.

Growing from seed isn't going to get you results very fast, buy clones, bioassy them, find the potent ones and then propagate the potent one!

I imagine if you grow a lot of seeds of a strain with pretty good genetics you'll get 1 or 2 cacti with good entheogenic properties though right?

Right, but it will take longer, but growing from seed is a good way to "roll the genetic dice" so to speak.

Sacred Succulents has all the potent and rare clones as well as HYBRID Trichocereus seeds and plants!

SWIM supports this idea and volunteers to test any cactus specimens for potency

CLONE not strain! A clones means it has the same DNA, it's genetically identical, that is what we need to work with, not strains or species because they are all very different, only the same exact clone is going to be the same.

If you want a good potent cactus juice it with dopa and tyramine

Has this ever been proven?

I've heard this precursor dosing suggested as a theory, but have never heard from anyone actually getting anywhere with it.

I think it's horseshit and have never actually heard of a single person putting it into practice.

Focus on genetics.

These dudes are my strongest short spine torches.

For size comparison my shoes are uk size 13 and thats a bic lighter.

Such beauties Phlux :b


Much Peace and Happiness

It is my opinion that the cactus which Phlux posted is a Trichocereus pachanoi, not a Trichocereus peruvianus, but there is much debate and confusion surrounding these cacti.

Cacti vary so much from one specimen to the next that I would say your best bet is going by specimen rather than species. While I accept that this is prohibitively challenging for one who does not have the ability or access to sample a currently living psychoactive cactus, it's really the only way to be sure. Even a cactus with good, strong genetics can wildly under produce psychedelic alkaloids given environmental conditions. Use genetics as a guideline, but if you wanna be sure, you gotta go from clone.

Good luck, powerful cacti are truly magical...

Not species or strains but CLONES is what we must focus on.

Good post SnozzleBerry.

I still to this day am not certain about what a trichocereus peruvianus looks like... I've been shown so much different stuff, mislabelled cacti, mass published misidentifacation and what not... but lets not let me drag this thread into what is a true peruvianus... we all know where that road goes.

I can say for 100% sure I know what a bridgseii looks like and I know a loph. williamsii (pink flower right?)

coatl is incorrect here - iv explained many times, also that cactus yeilds about 3.5-4% pure white mesc without washing and almost nothing else, 500mg unwashed = 490mg washed.
Coatl - must explain, i have a large amount of pedro, torch and bridgesii. Extracted all of the ones i grow with intent(except my bridgesii(also got a long spine and short spine variety of that) and all of the pedro yeild a much darker product full of other alkaloids.
They smell slightly different, their skin is very different, their spines are totally different(even in how they split when crushed between your teeth), their ribs are different etc.
Coatl - months ago you fought with me on this(even approaching me on various other forums - sending me hate pm's), i dont care to fight, you are a teenager that thinks you know everything(all teenagers do - so its totally understandable)
Hopefully when you get older and perhaps do some extractions, cactus naming will make more sense.
That cactus has also been sold by a local nursery as peruvian torch alongside their pedro and peyote's(the torch was collected by a south african back in the early 50's in peru)

Oh also dosing tea/jelly - preddy damn obvious the spp (im not confused nor debating the spp of the cactus iv grown for many many years alongside the spp of cactus you would like me to beleve it is - i have seen mine(a clone of mine) in its adult form near a pedro in its adult form - once again, preddy damn obvious)

if you scroll down on this page - http://www.thenook.org/f...ndex.php?showtopic=34667 you will see M S Smith describe the short spined torch.

Here is how the mesc comes out from an stb then pulling with xylene then salting with hcl water. (unwashed)