Here is an ultimate question, would you give psychedelics to your offspring?, of course once they reached a certain age such as 21.


That would be a true test as to how much you believe in psychedelics or their importance in life. May also be an ultimate test of one's sanity with or because of them.


Just a question, food for thought...


~Love and Light

I'd give aya to my child for sure, once they've reached a certain age. They do this in the Amazon, with no ill effects. I think it would amazing to open a youngster up to the possibility that the world is really magical.

No. I don't even like the idea of giving psychedelics to most adults, I'd rather they find them on their own, so I'm not responsible for their psyches.

I understand that this is different in some cultures, but not in this one, and I feel that in this one, a child has enough to integrate, just being a child, and that like most mind altering substances, the brain should be developed to adulthood in the vast majority of cases. (Cases where it isn't a medical necessity like CBD oil for severe seizures when nothing else works)

In general, yes, absolutely. Of course, reaching an age of maturity first is a given.

Specific to me, one child is just a matter of reaching the right age, while the other it seems unlikely ever.

What about when they are 21 even? What I really meant by children is one's offspring, not a child...

I can't think of a better gift to give ones offspring, other than love of course.

Who are we to decide how we should educate our children?
Who are we to decide what kind of mental worlds human beings should be allowed to inhabit?
Discretion, patience, and attention to detail are three cardinal virtues one learns growing mushrooms,
which come in handy for the trip itself. But I've come to a point where I cannot see a valid distinction between the trip of the mushroom, (or the trip of any entheogen) and the trip of everyday so-called ordinary mundane human existence.
This is important to the point of this question. We will see why.

In a sane society, we would not worry about ownership rights to entheogens,
nor would we be having this purely hollow concern about other's mental health, (which is a manifestation of the former) because -
in the same way new vegetables come up in the spring, and all leaves again turn green without anyone or anything there to remind them how to do it,
young children do not need to be educated to "trip" because for them (at least up until a couple years of age before we destroy them with our hypocrisy) the experience of life as a whole is indistinguishable from what we so-called grown ups call the "goddamned real world", you know, where you got bills and responsibilities and life is tough and rough and grahhhhhhhhh I Must survive, I've GOT to go on living - that kind of thing.

I suppose in a nutshell what I am saying is this:

The question of giving entheogens to children is a bit ridiculous. Because it implies there is something the child can learn from it, and this information, because we think it is "ours", because we are of a dominator culture and subject to a terrible intellectual virus which underlies our greed, anger, desire for property, and our sense of duty and ownership, we now find ourselves on the dmt-nexus if it children should be allowed or if it's safe - and all that is malarky, something like spiritual pride. There is nothing a child can learn insofar as we feel the plant or mushroom is ours to decide whom is worthy of it's contact. Total nonsense. Makes me cringe.

Stop trying to teach children.
Alan once said that wisdom does not come from above down, but from below up.
Children. That's where the wisdom is. Just like the fresh air in the spring. It needs no guidance.

However, once we children have grown insane (that's what grown-ups are called), entheogens are indeed (in my experience so far, and that's not saying much) the most powerful catalyst of reversing the damage (called the hallucination of separation, which is the source of all so-called evil) done to our sanity by our desire to control ourselves, other people, the environment, anything that is outside of your own bag of skin - what kind of ideology is the right one. That's why all these wars are started. Because everyone is out to help someone else, to change someone else, to Teach someone else, to save someone else, to save the whole goddamn world. And it's hypocrisy.

Why can we not simply sit with ourselves?
Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
The best thing you can do for the world is nothing.

Children, sane and wise, know this, but not in english. And because we insist on who they are and what our rules are, we as children forget what we come to find again (for most of us never in the course of our entire life but rather) only in our dying breath - consciousness being reabsorbed into the Light - and then we have a feeling of having been here before. Of course you do, because Everything is You.

Why can we not simply be responsible for ourselves?
Somebody mentioned fear of being responsible for someone else's psyche, that the drug if administered carelessly would cause psychosis or something. And that you'd have that on your conscience.
WelL you know we are each other. So, on the one hand we do not need to worry about this. It's not serious. In the end it all comes out in the wash. It doesn't matter what you do, because you can never make a mistake. If you are afraid of making a mistake, dosing up your kids, then they in that miracle state in their infinite wisdom will detect your lack of self-confidence, and by virtue of what Jung called the principle of transference, will absorb that feeling and therefore learn the exact same lesson, passing on to everyone they then later on contact Learning the same fear. And the whole thing starts all over again with their children. Everyone's afraid. Because everyone feels responsible for everyone else. Because no one knows everyone is the same Self. And that is Ignore-ance, which is separation, which is Suffering.
Welcome to the human world.

The point is doesn't matter. Do not seek a rule of thumb. That is for intellectual babies.
Existence is not a rule of thumb. It's more like a log in a stream.
And we're all logs in the stream. What is one log to say about another log's path down the river?
Well, anything you like - but remember they are just like you. The more you know about yourself,
the more you know about others. This understanding empowers confidence. And your own self-confidence actually, by some kind of osmosis, can be transmitted to others because they begin to feel "permission" to act for themselves just as you are. If everyone does that, you see, the question of who should receive what drugs and at what age and so on is meaningless. Making laws is trying to catch light from the sun in your hand to save it for later.

But, seriously guys, don't be giving mushrooms to children.
But, sincerely guys, you can if you want to.
hhahahahah

I am comfortable with sharing these things with my sons. Psychedelia isn't taboo in my family and we feel it should be represented appropriately.
My father taught me about the magic of mushrooms, and I've shared DMT with him and my mother many times.
The trust we have for each other carries through the medicine.

I would never push anything on my kids if I had kids (probably will happen sooner then later), but if they expressed interest then yes I would certainly share psychedelics with them. I have sat in ceremony in Peru with small children present and I cannot think of a single good reason to hide anything so helpful and beautiful from my children. Also - if I am the one sharing these things then I can make sure they are safe which is a bonus.

I already share everything openly with the rest of my family and community so this doesnt seem like it would be a big step for me - seems more obvious.

I think you underestimate the intelligence of children. Before the age of five, children in appropriate conditions can have acquired two or three, or more, languages, be a musical genius, or an artist, or a poet, or a rascal, anything you want. Children have forever to think, because they don't have the same so-called responsibilities as you and I.
What I really mean is children have forever to play. And are always fascinated with even the most weird things (from an adult point of view). You as a child did need integration in the way you speak of it, but because integration is a background process of some kind. Absorption of information married with a methodology of sorting through raw data. Just as you breathe and cannot know how you do it, children "integrate" - but this is a process that is background, already implicitly understood by the child.

Children are vastly intelligent. And I think if children have the right teachers you see, then they will become far greater than any of us can imagine. Just imagine if this is the way in which you were brought up. You would have so much appreciation for your mentors along the way, because they believed in you, encouraged you, were there for you everytime you had a question, helping you learn how to think, not what to think, simply pointing to the gnat sitting on a blue lily in the pond when they start asking "but who made god daddy"?
I sometimes am heartbroken I didn't have those kind of teachers. And that is what really ignites my fire, because I want to do everything I can to show people that we need to learn from our children, not try to teach them. Because, after all, the world is going to hell in a handbag due to a shortage of good ideas and wise people. Maybe we should hand over the torch of teaching to our children. Maybe we should let them bring balance to the force. And say "you lead the way my love".
And if, as a result of this, the world turns into a garden in which everyone is naked and joyous with flowers in our hair -
then well, that sounds like a world I'd like to live in. But it all starts with our children. And the courage to encourage the fire therein them.

Yes.
I would want them to know that there is more to life .

I know certain cultures do this very early but unless you are involved in that culture with the complex support system in place; you are placing yourself and your child at risk. Being a copy cat of other cultures is a slippy slope especially when google is your main information source and you have never seen these cultures first hand.

After years of discussions, being around trippers and having the ability to care for oneself properly by themselves -yes I would offer the option. To be honest I have seen many parents give things to children when the child really had no idea what was being offered- mostly for the parents own ego with little regard for the child! It has somehow become the "hip" thing to do sadly...

I have seen kids who have been exposed too early to these things talk about drugs at school innocently enough and the parents ended up in jail. I have also been around when a child had to be taken to the hospital because of freaking out on a micro dose of mushrooms-imagine explaining that one to children's aid! It is very risky!

"Perhaps I am asking the wrong questions but it doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back."

I've thought about this quite a bit. When I refer to my plants as "my" plants. But they're not mine, they're living beings and I don't want to own them, just as I wouldn't want to own someone I love.

I tend to look at it like the old saying, "a good teacher shows you were to look, but doesn't tell you what to see."

I actually just drank aya with a friend, about an hour ago, we're sitting under this huge oak tree called the tree of life. I asked him what he thought about this, he said that it should just be allowed to find them naturally.

I think it is great for them if they discover it on their own and at an appropriate age. Of course, proper education is necessary and having a parent there to guide and educate them would definitely be beneficial. I do not have children so I can't really speculate on how I would handle it if my child was asking me questions or wanting to partake. However, I know that I would be honest and tell them all the ins and outs and everything that I have learned thus far in my journeys and then allow them to research and find their own path.

All a parent can really do is be supportive and informative but most of all, loving!

My God Amnesia!!!!!

I cried so hard & good as I read this post!!!!

You understand something extremely fundamental that I too understand & am often at odds with as far as how to express it clearly & eloquently in words; linear words in English that can never represent the Whole.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Ok, sorry, not to get off track...

I can be such a thread derailer!!!!!

Anyway, back to the op's question:

I decided back in the early 80's that I would never have children due to many factors, including the observation that there are WAY too many people on the planet already & it isn't getting any better mainly due to the amount of people continuing to grow by the second.

I ended up adopting (along with my wife) 3 kids...Two of which are well on their way (have finished college & have very amazing lives & careers) & one of which just graduated from high school a year early with straight A's the whole way through...

Not that I give a flying shit about success in the human realm & grades in school...

This has always been a weird line to tow in my life...

I want my kids to be happy & content, period. I don't really care what gets them there.

The only one of the three that even shows an interest in anything psychedelic is our youngest, who is currently 17.

I've promised her mother that I would not share any psychedelic substances with her until she's at least 18 years of age.

My daughter has approached me about this...She want's to do LSD with me when she's 18...I have reservations about this, but at the same time, I was the one who was like, when she was 15 & started smoking Cannabis, "well, she's smoking it anyway: we might as well smoke it with her a bit to guide her in the right direction"...

My wife sometimes thinks this was a big mistake...I don't see it that way...

I've taken LSD & mushrooms while taking said daughter on nature hikes with her friends (& her & her friends would smoke joints at hiking breaks)...Those times went very well, so I feel as if, if I chose to imbibe in some psychedelic with my youngest daughter, it would turn out to be pretty fantastic, but I'm not really looking forward to that...I think she needs to find it on her own, just as I did when I was but a year older than she is now...

She's taken some mushrooms at music festivals & has some pretty trippy experiences that she's had the confidence to relate to me (thank God; probably because I've told her that I've taken quite a bit of psychedelics in the past; she really has no idea just how many, how much, when, where, etc., but she knows that she can trust that I won't judge her & I will give good advice if I have any to give).


All in all, I feel that it's an organic process that should not be tinkered with.

Just my two cents...Thanks for reading.

Anamnesia,

I too felt really moved by your words... Thanks for sharing your thoughts my friend, your post really made my day.

Personally , if/when I have kids, I would prefer for them to find psychedelics on their own accord and if they do and would like to share that experience with me, then I'd be more than happy to do so when they are at an appropriate age.

BundleflowerPower:

"a good teacher shows you were to look, but doesn't tell you what to see."

I love that. That's exactly the point. It's like I have this pandora's box in my hands, and I flash my friend the evil twinkle on the surface of my cannabis eye and say to him
"hey, pssss. wanna see something really weirrrddd?"
Um not sure, what is it?
"i'm not sure, but that's why i need your opinion!"
Hmm, well - alright. Let me see that.
(Hand him the box)
Next thing you know he's inside a metatron's cube made of mirrors.
"hahahaa wierd huh?!" (the voice echoes from beyond the diamond of spacetime)
Whoa! I'm astonished! Nothing makes sense but music, and, to think about this place. Wait, how did you find this place?
"same way you did my wise friend! Hahahahah!"
the gossip of Buddhas.



Doc Buxin:

I'm so happy you enjoyed yourself - that really makes me smile miles wide.
On the eloquent word thing ; something I would like to share with everyone that I think would be very helpful in our collective effort to transcend cultural, ideological, and especially (my favorite) linguistic limitations is to learn focus of intent. I want to suggest that having a deep understanding of what it is you really want, (understanding your true natural unforced genuine desire unpreturbed by chronic guilt) will set into motion a process of learning that begins by paying attention, which causes more cases of reality to be mapped, and if we wish to map in a way that is communicable to others, we have to have words to call the things we are talking about. By virtue of that necessity, we begin to acquire by sheer osmosis a great deal of what is being said by these very great mental giants. (I'm speaking of Alan W. Watts, Terence Mckenna, Marshall Mcluhan, Richard Bucke, Gautama Siddhartha are my top 5.) We assimilate their minds into our own mind, ever extending the boundaries of the capacity of our own comprehension and imagination by probing there's.
I share this with you because I feel that this method of language assimilation has helped me tremendously in my abilities to communicate ideas, and to cut out things that I don't really mean to say, because they are disconnected from my real intent.
I had a 5g mushroom trip the other day and a very strong point I learned is this :
It is from what I genuinely intend that all other decisive dichotomies extend. And the more curious I get, the more incomprehensible I get, simply because (to borrow Leary's wisdom)
"the smarter you become, the smarter your world becomes."
Like that lonely dandelion on the moon, you see.
Just marveling at that view of earth but with no other flower to love.
The problem is, the smarter you become, the smaller the audience capable of truly understanding you becomes - because they haven't experienced what you have.
This is interesting. I read a few comments on youtube below one of terence's talks, they were all saying it really seemed as though his intellect was very old, like an old soul, reincarnated multiple times, and they were saying that as many talks as they listened to by him, they still could not see his point.
Terence became incredibly old yes, but not because he literally lived several lifetimes. Terence became an old soul because the time dilation of the entheogen; he lifelong called to his aid from short doses to massive the mind of psilocybin and other plants (obviously) ; and by a process I am but an infant in understanding terence lived through many literal (this is isn't damn poetry) eternities. He, as it were, jump in and out the ocean of eternity many many times attempting to chart its topology. He threw himself into the domain of the terror of strange, and, honoring his contribution to our collective wisdom, taught us that Nature loves courage.
Nature loves courage
Nature loves courage
Nature loves courage
Nature loves courage
Nature loves courage
That's why he became a god of sorts - a wizard masterfully detached from language, which is the reason he could wield that weapon so powerfully.
You remember the saying:
"Your word is magic. Your word misused is black magic."
Well, by that idea, I find terence to be the smartest person to have ever lived.
His logic is fierce and his intelligence superhuman.
His magic, you see, was in his word. And I don't think it was black magic.
He really was an angel denizen of eternity in the monkey flesh.
Time does not exist in the 5th dimension. All futures, past, and present are contained in the fifth dimension, which, as far I understand, is exactly the vantage point of the shaman. Time is the fourth dimension. The fourth dimension is temporal. The first three dimensions are spatial. The universe we percieve ordinarily is that diamond of four-dimensional space-time. And orthogonal to spacetime - is the fifth dimension.
Entheogens drop you into that lake of forever. Wisdom is not counted in years.
Wisdom is counted in time. And unless you've plunged, if only once, into that lake of forever, you are but among the infants of the wise.
With time, wisdom. With wisdom, more time.

Anyway, I just went wayyy out in left field. To return to the main point:
I'm going to borrow Qui-gon Jin's wisdom. He said, "always remember - your focus becomes your reality." And I want to add that behind the focus is your real intent, and your intent is the same as your true self (provided you understand what your real intent is). The idea is to find out what you really intend, that is to say, what it is you really want to happen. What do we want? Family? Love? Money? House? Land? Peace? a guitar? a subway sandwhich? a nuclear physics manual? a girl? a guy?
If we say we want liberation, what does that really mean, if anything - because we borrow the goals (dreams) of others, calling them our own because its convenient to ally oneself with the common goal. But the common goal is never your own goal. But what if the common goal is liberation? This is why I ask others what exactly they think they're going to get when they suddenly achieve this zenith of enlightenment at the end of whatever spiritual journey. And the answer is so long as you believe that there exists a path to heaven, then "heaven and earth spring miles apart", and the entrance into heaven is blocked by your own blocking. This is why in zen they speak of the gateless gate, the metaphor of having walked through a door and then turning around and finding there isn't one. You were already forever there. Here. There never was a goal. There never was a future. There never was a road to enlightment, but only the path along which all beings, being enlightened each and every one of them, travel. There was only ever Art. There was only ever Now. And that's what You Are! Dou art dat!

And thank you DoingKermit for your kind words

I can be such a thread derailer!!!!!
dammit.

Thank you again for sharing your magic Anamnesia ! I always appreaciate reading you : so many things you say that I can relate to ! It warms my heart to hear some one speak these words !

Personnaly, I am still young and my opinion is the same as the Doc Buxin of the 80's, but if I suppose I were to have children and that a legitimate interest in psychedelics was already there that I would be there for guidance.

I would never impose it upon anybody, but just like Anamnesia I know for a fact that psychedelics have immense potential for human growth.