I recently read "The First and Last Freedom" by Jiddu Krishnamurti. It really opened my mind to realizing how little control I have over my... self, i quite enjoyed being challenged in such a way. I was, though, a bit taken back near the end of the book when he states:






He goes on to say things such as "only the frustrated, narrow, shallow mind, the conditioned mind, is always seeking the more."



I don't intend to make this into a nonsense 'spiritual practice and meditation versus psychedelics' thread, my main thought is, I wonder if this man, or others who say similar things, would have felt the same if they were familiar with a true DMT experience? While i can only speculate on Krishnamurti, his book was written in 1969 so it may have been influenced by the widespread (mis?)use of LSD in the mid sixties, as well as influenced by the propaganda at the time, which as a side note would seem to contradict his perception on the conditioning of humans.


The DMT experience is so ineffable, it is not only mystery but beyond mystery. Could their meditation techniques possibly have made a trip to hyperspace seem like a poverty laden escape? Not to mention, ayahuasca has helped many many people decondition from such negatives aspects of culture he speaks so passionately against. I wonder if someone like krishnamurti or others who hold similar positions would reconsider their position if he experimented a few times with DMT and ayahuasca. Just a thought.

Meh. Is Krishnamurti speaking from experience or is he fantasizing? I'm always suspicious of 'spiritual teachers', especially the dead ones, since you can't argue with them anymore.

What's the difference between Krishnamurti's no to drugs and Reagan's no to drugs?


I say: just say know. And one can only know if one has walked both paths. Everything else is hearsay.

I have read most of krishnamurti's books and have watched hours of video I don't think that he is talking about lack of experience from these drugs. I don't think that he means to downplay these drugs or experiences. His goal was to set then free. To set their minds free. The only way we can truly be free is to be genuinely happy with our minds without alternating them in any way shape or form and accepting the world for the way that it is. He often would quote you are the world in the world is you. This is also true of drugs. If the world is full of drugs and I am part of that world and I am part of those drugs and the drugs are part of me.

but fundamentally if I take these drugs I am NOT free as I am seeking outside of myself for experience. I feel if he was to take these types of drugs it would do very little for a person like him because he is seeking not outside of himself. oftentimes spiritual teachers will come across as the way. the correct way. If you really listen to krishnamurti's teachings he often states do not follow him that he is not the way. you must find your own way your own pat. Think for yourself. you must have your own experience and if using these drugs age you and your experience then I think that is a good thing. we all can't be great spiritual teachers we can't all delve into meditation as the great spiritual teachers have.

I heard a story about a Zen Buddhist monk or something like that that took a hit of acid and then spit it out and call it illusions. I call b******* on that. that guy took acid 30 minutes or been to a system is not going to simply just spit it out and call it illusions.

no these great spiritual teachers may not need the lessons that these plants and other chemicals offer us. they may not need these things to get where they want. To have the experience they need. to become enlightened. they may not need these things but I do believe that they would see the value in any tool. the thing is not to become dependent on the tools that we use and to appreciate the fact that our minds are the greatest tool.

I'd trust a spiritual teacher that has taken their medicine over one who speaks out against psychedelics or claims to be beyond them. Even though ultimately it's true, as awareness is not a substance, it's still laughable for anyone to claim they are beyond these substances.

When i look back at how i spent my trips ten years ago compared to how they play out now it's really worlds apart, i used to get one or two fleeting glimpses of something great but now after practicing meditation for a decade i feel i can really squeeze every last bit out of a trip and integrate it beautifully.

While it is true an awakened mind is one no longer seeking outside of itself that doesn't necessarily mean there is no place for entheogenic medicines, it just means the medicine would be seen as part of oneself rather than outside

Weird: some Spiritual Teachers can't get that
Tools is the word, the wielding makes all the different outcome possible.
And any outcome holds a lesson.

That mountain (the monk meditate-sits on for life, where he receives his "Holy" certificate after the white beard reaches the scrotum) is a tool too.
Some sporty people hike/climb same mountain, chasing life, fall, slip and injure or even die.
Thus --> Just say NO to mountains !! Away with them nasty huge oaf illusion inducers.

Personally I do not think that krishnamurti or any other spiritual leader could offer any new insights into these drugs. They would also likely be a real drag to trip with. They can discount what they wish. They speak their truth about their path. There are countless paths to enlightenment. There should be no comparisons. We should not compare ourselves with anyone. We should not compare our path to another's. Many truths, many paths. All connected. A true leader will tell you this. A true leader will say do not do as I do. Do not do as I say. Do as you do. Go and do the work of your life. Go create your path and your truth. Then when uou reach enlightenment you will never say do exactly as I did. Never. You would speak your truth and be happy with that.

Everything = Nothing.
I think that everybody is right and at the same time wrong in their subjective post experience terminology and beliefs. Nothing wrong with that in my view.
You get to choose and name it while playing this human role what it is to you and it is constantly changing through life any way isn't it?
So in my view if you stick to your own interpretation and experiences your are making your story more unique as suppose to someone that adopts explanations and terminology from others. For the sake of the game it's really important but in bigger picture it doesn't really matter since everything is already everything and only by being everything you are nothing and vice versa. Preaching is only part of human game since while human and while preaching that your truth is the only real one we fail to remember that we are preaching to the choir...even if they don't seem to know it.
Hmmmm i don't know what was my point...ultimately there is no point to be made i guess since we are escaping that point of reference as Source by ˝thinking/dreaming˝ this reality into existence so we can forget and have dramatic journeys over and over again.