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endogenous levels of DMT in people with and without psychological issues Options
 
mysterium-tremendu
#1 Posted : 1/11/2015 10:10:52 AM

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In a new article I was reading it claims that there is no difference in endogenous DMT levels between normal patients and patients with mental illness.

I found this interesting because it was originally speculated that endogenous DMT played a role in schizophrenia and other mental illness. Though I'm not surprised at these findings as I do not believe that DMT mimics psychosis.

Title
Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric isotope dilution determination of N,N-dimethyltryptamine concentrations in normals and psychiatric patients

Authors
R. J. Wyatt
L. R. Mandel
H. S. Ahn
R. W. Walker
W. J. A. Vanden Heuvel

Abstract
A gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric determination of the plasma N,N-dimethyltryptamine concentration from normals and psychiatric patients revealed that within the limit of sensitivity of the assay (0.5–1.8 ng/ml of plasma), there was no difference amongst normals, patients with psychotic depression, acute and chronic schizophrenia.
 

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benzyme
#2 Posted : 1/11/2015 12:45:44 PM

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not surprising
...and 'psychotomimetic' is an obsolete/antiquated term,as is the old model for schizophrenia.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
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dreamer042
#3 Posted : 1/11/2015 7:02:54 PM

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New is not the correct word here by any means, that article was published in 1973. The full text is attached for convenience.

Wyatt, R. J., et al. "Gas chromatographic-mass spectrometric isotope dilution determination of N, N-dimethyltryptamine concentrations in normals and psychiatric patients." Psychopharmacologia 31.3 (1973): 265-270.

The role of endogenous tryptamines in psychosis is an interesting area to explore however, as a more recent study (2009) found significantly higher levels of bufotenine in subjects with autism and schizophrenia than in healthy subjects, also attached.

Emanuele, Enzo, et al. "Elevated urine levels of bufotenine in patients with autistic spectrum disorders and schizophrenia." Neuroendocrinology letters 31.1 (2009): 117-121.

There is also the question of the role of 5-MEO-DMT, but it appears there hasn't been much research in this area since the 60's and 70's and the research that was done seems fairly inconclusive.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
GOD
#4 Posted : 1/11/2015 7:47:03 PM
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" The role of endogenous tryptamines in psychosis is an interesting area to explore however, as a more recent study (2009) found significantly higher levels of bufotenine in subjects with autism and schizophrenia than in healthy subjects, also attached.
"

No offence ment ...... just a comment ...... I have difficulty with seeing psychosis , autism and schitzophenia in the same converstaion ........ and also the bit about autism and health ? Are autistic people unhealthy ? Are all autistic people ill ? Or is it a gift for some people ? An advantage .

I am autism spectum ........ please dont burn me at the stake for being honest .
 
Al-Wasi
#5 Posted : 1/11/2015 8:34:55 PM

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I thought this was discussed in Strassmans book The Spirit Molecule and it was determined that DMT levels were no different in schizophrenic people when compared to people who are said to be not mentally I'll?

Maybe I'm forgetting but I thought it coveted it and if not I swear k read it somewhere.
That moment when you wonder if this time you went too far....

Obviously everything discussed here is the fictional accounts of someone with an out there imagination. I mean really could any of these tales be real?
 
dreamer042
#6 Posted : 1/13/2015 1:16:03 AM

Dreamoar

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GOD wrote:
" The role of endogenous tryptamines in psychosis is an interesting area to explore however, as a more recent study (2009) found significantly higher levels of bufotenine in subjects with autism and schizophrenia than in healthy subjects, also attached.
"

No offence ment ...... just a comment ...... I have difficulty with seeing psychosis , autism and schitzophenia in the same converstaion ........ and also the bit about autism and health ? Are autistic people unhealthy ? Are all autistic people ill ? Or is it a gift for some people ? An advantage .


No offense intended. Nor did I mean to imply that autism, schizophrenia, and psychosis are in any way the same thing. Perhaps I could have phrased that better. Embarrased

What I was getting at was that of endogenous tryptamine compounds that have the potential to be involved in psychosis or act as true "psychotomimetics", bufotenine is the most likely candidate.

The more recent and relevant study I linked to support the idea that bufo may be involved abnormal psychological states found that bufotenine levels were higher in both autistic and schizophrenic subjects than in subjects that were not autistic or schizophrenic. The term healthy to represent the non-autistic and non-schizophrenic subjects was the term the researches themselves used to identify the control subjects:
Quote:
OBJECTIVE:
Previous studies have suggested that the endogeneous psychotomimetic molecule bufotenine (N-N-dimethyl-5-idroxytryptamine) may play a role in the pathogenesis of severe mental disorders. The potential association of bufotenine with the clinical features of autism and schizophrenia is not entirely understood. In this study, we measured urinary levels of bufotenine in subjects with autistic spectrum disorder (ASD), schizophrenia and healthy comparison subjects free of psychiatric symptoms. We also sought to assess whether urine concentrations of this molecule may be associated with the clinical characteristics of psychiatric patients.

I have no opinion on whether autism is detrimental or advantageous, whether it should be considered an illness or a gift. That is another discussion entirely and not really relevant here. The topic of this thread is the potential role of endogenous tryptamines in abnormal psychological states, which is a broad category that encompasses autism, schizophrenia, psychosis, and a whole host of other states.

I hope that makes things a little more clear.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
 
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