So I would love to and probably will next summer. However, I was wondering what other people's ideas were on the subject.
If you were gonna do it would you want it to be amazing dose or just average?
I say if you're gonna do it you should go big or go home.
Share your's and SWIY's experiences.
peace and love!

You'd better make sure it's real LSD because 10 hits of DOM, DOI, etc., would be extremely unpleasant and possibly send you to the hospital.

SWIM has taken in excess of 10 hits of real LSD (about 1500 micrograms) many years ago when the real stuff was still around when he lived back in San Francisco. I would not recommend it. The level of “brain fuck” at that dose is extremely unpleasant. Also vasoconstriction kicks in, as well as lots of sweating. It doesn’t become any more hallucinogenic as the dose increases beyond 500 micrograms, it just becomes more mentally intoxicating and LSA-style side effects become apparent. It’s unpleasant unless you really like “brain fuck” and feeling slightly poisoned.

LSD is better as a low dose psychedelic. There’s no reason to take that much of it. Once you get past about 500 micrograms, you’re really wasting the LSD. That’s SWIM’s opinion anyway. It just causes more “brain fuck” and you start getting LSA-style side effects, no fun. For a more intense experience use a high dose of mescaline or DMT where it’s actually worth it.

I completely do NOT agree with ron that over 500micrograms it doesnt increase the psychedelic effects. Maybe if you divide it smaller doses spread over time, its right because one creates a tolerance.. But if one takes it ALL AT ONCE, then definitely, at least in SWIM's, and SWIM's friends experiences, one can get more and more effects with doses above 500mcg.

But I do very much agree with ron that you should be careful and make sure its real lsd.. also the set and setting recomendations should be even more respected!

Better have a sitter who is either straight or at least who is responsible and has taken smaller dose.

Nature is usually where SWIM wants to be in extremely high lsd doses.

without tolerence one shouldnt need that much lsd

From my own experience i can say i agree with ron here; Above a certain amount hardly any increase in psychedelic effects is noticed. There is an increase in what some people call 'brainfuck', wich in high doses consists for a great part of not being able to concentrate on anything or to do tasks that involve a functioning short-term memory, like finishing a sentence.

The effects of LSD can more succesfully be increased by combining it with other substances like passionflower, datura or cannabis.

With mushrooms i have never noticed such a threshold, where the effects no longer increase. I would go that way.

SWIM took 11 hits of LSD on blotter back in 1996. It was both awesome and too much to handle. SWIM was pretty into the local LSD (consumption only) scene and this was considered to be pretty good stuff, although who knows how many micrograms it actually was. SWIM pretty much stuck to 2-3 hits after that (there were exceptions). SWIM has never thought that taking 11 was a bad idea... but he never went that big again. SWIM was under the impression that most of what is sold as acid nowadays is usually something else.

its pretty easy to take 10+ hits of acid if you have taken it for a few days..

this is the exception of course..

SWIM is saying all at once. Maybe you're acid is weak acid. There is a limit at which more LSD doesn't do more except cause side effects and more mind fuck. If you're acid is weak then of course taking 10 is better than taking 5, but if its decent potent acid there's little difference between 5 and 10 hits. There’s a huge difference between 1 and 2 hits of course. With LSD, as the dosage increases the potency doesn’t increase much. The difference between 1 and 2 this are larger than 2 and 4, and that’s larger than 4 and 8. SWIM’s has used LSD over a 1000 times, and knows this personally to be a fact. There’s a dosage curve and it weakens as the dosage goes up. I’ve seen this documented before many times. Even Leary talks about this. The saturation point is between 400 and 500 micrograms. I’m not making this up. This was found during human testing.

If 10 hits are much stronger than 5 hits, either it’s NOT LSD or your hits are less than 100 micrograms each.

Stanislav Grof, M.D.


Psychedelics encyclopedia By Peter G. Stafford, Jeremy Bigwood

SWIM thinks anyone who has taken a print would argue that there is very much a difference. Perhaps not in the thousands of a microgram range... But once you start getting into double milligram figures there would be a cosmic shift and then some.

Although SWIM can't quite fathom what effect that would have, he's heard the stories and knows of people who have smashed through this 'saturation point'

Try multiplying all the doses in the studies by 100's and thousands, see what happens then.

I think Combining a good strong dose of Shrooms with smoked DMT is healthier for the Mind than a thumbprint dose of LSD.
I would prefer it .

Thumbprints doses That's complete bullshit! No one actually does that. That's another one of those LSD myths like the strychnine in LSD myth, and the “you take LSD 3 times and you’re insane” myth.

The LD50 for LSD in humans is recorded as 12 mg for an average sized adult. That's a mythical "thumbprint" dose, which is potentially enough to kill you if you’re stupid enough to try it. At those doses extremely unpleasant side effects kick in. You can actually start bleeding from platelet malfunctioning, get hyperthermia, fall into a coma, get respiratory arrest, and even develop brain damage from hemorrhages. You don't want to be taking that much.

I cannot believe all the complete bullshit out there about LSD!

LSD is toxic if you take enough and can kill you. There are deaths recorded from LSD overdose. It’s a myth that it can’t kill you. A myth.

Anyone dumb enough to stick their thumb in a pile of pure LSD crystals and lick it is really asking for trouble.

If any of you go out and try that, just be sure you have someone to take you to ER if you OD. It will be VERY UNPLEASANT. Chances are you won’t die, but you’ll get hemorrhages, vomit like crazy, and possibly fall into a coma.

Many years ago SWIM saw a guy get rushed to the ER after eating a whole sheet of acid (approximately 10 mg of LSD was ingested). LSD is NOT non-toxic. It can kill you. The guy was bleeding internally, vomiting constantly, etc., and in sort of a coma-like state, but he recovered and was fine the next day. The doctor said he could have died had he not been rushed to ER. And, no he’s not bonkers or insane or anything like that. He’s perfectly fine now. He ate the sheet on a bet, and was very sorry he did. He didn't even remember the trip. He blacked out shortly after taking it.

You might argue that the impurities in the acid caused those life threatening effects. But SWIM had some of that acid too. It was very good quality. It was the original “Candy Stripes”, with the red, blue, and green wiggly lines on it. Very good stuff obtained at a Greatful Dead concert from a very trusted seller there. Some of you out there I’m sure know the acid SWIM is talking about. This was back in the 80’s. I think 1988 or so.

I want to reinstate this. LSD IS NOT NON-TOXIC. That’s a lie. Just like all other psychedelics, there is a point at which it becomes lethal in man. No one is exactly sure what the dose is, but 12 mg is said to be the LD50 in man.

Ron.. about the LD50 for men.. How many people died of lsd poisoning? LD50 is a statistical number, talking about the dose that 50% of people die. This cannot be accurate unless there have been several cases making it a reliable number. The reason why they can say LD50 correctly for other substances is because there have been enough cases to have a specific number. With LSD that is NOT the case. They have hundreds and hundreds of (poor) animals tested to come up with those numbers for animals. So you see the number you cited is meaningless.

This is not to say that is non toxic, but yes it is way less toxic in terms of the safety index in comparison with a lot of very commonly used substances of all kinds. Even water at a certain dosage is toxic, and would be stupid to argue otherwise.


As for the saturation story. Yes I read this quote from grof before, but there may be several factors involved. Did he test it himself? How did he test it with others? Were the dosages increased slowly, or were the dosages increased in big differences (such as from 400mics in one, then 1200mics next) with at least a week spread appart? Were the people questioned before or after the trip? What were the questions and what were the standards in which one could judge if it was a stronger trip or not? Or was it just physiological measuring? How many people were involved? Is this a generalization valid for ALL people or SOME people? Does it depend on race, body type, metabolism, set and setting, blood type, genetics, enzyme levels, etc etc?

I am not just arguing for the sake of it. SWIM has taken a considerable amount of high doses of acid, once taking way way way too much accidentally, and by his own experience, and not the quote of someone, he truly feels that 400mics is definitely NOT the saturation limit, AT LEAST FOR HIM.... His few experienced friends agree.. and no, SWIM doesnt have weak acid and neither RC. But I agree that this MAY be true for SOME people.. Saying that its absolutely one way or another is just supposition, until this gets tested specifically with a good research method.

Lastly, as for the thumbprint.. you can think what you want, each one is entitled to his own opinion, but I know there's some good people out there who will strongly disagree with you

I will see if one can get an email or message to nick sand and see whats his opinion on this, would be interested to know

Something i believe you - for being located in Europe.
How strong do you think is your average blotter ?
I often hear about 100mcgs in my area - but i think there are some significantly less potent blotter around.

Stronger ones where the newest Albert Hofmann Blotters (one Alex Grey Kind and one Comic Bicycle Type with a house.
Less potent ones were Krusty Brand and Sponge Bob

15+ on the first time, from some traveling fellows devoted to spreading the light. was with some seasoned heads who attested to the qualitative/quantitative aspects of the liquid (bioassay.) dosing was staggered and spread out over a few hours which allowed experience at the different levels of intensity, until the final plateau. a number of subsequent attempts of up to 8 hits didn't come near that first time. not even close. these were from many other sources, varied types of experiences - definitely due to whatever was being passed on as 'blotter' at the time. it's possible that none of them were true LSD, but it's also possible that some were. never saw the originals again, though Eternally Grateful.

wouldn't necessarily recommend it, though that depends heavily on the individual. still of the mind that the dosage will find you, just be absolutely certain to surround yourself with responsible and respectable people.

timing is key.



ron, awesome input.

I read a story about a human fatality from 6mg, but that was later debunked as the hospital's assumption. read other stories about people spilling water on their pants with a sheet in their pocket or eating a sheet while being a passenger in a car that got pulled over. both cases ended up fine after a rather strong experience. those are just stories though.

do you have a source for the 12mg LD50? that'd be good to have around.

I thought the print was taken on the right thumb and pressed into the left palm? something about completing the body's circuit and all that. if it is a myth, I like this version better.

Observant..

Well yeah I've read several times that aprehended blotters usually test for under 100mics, more like 50.... But how were these blotters stored and so on? Maybe originally they were much better.. Dont know if the d..e.a or similar organs of other countries take much care in storage of the products they aprehend


A couple of years ago there were some Mayas around which supposedly were 200mics or even 300? dont know.. Were strong but I think ppl were exagerating.. SWIM doesnt believe what general dealers say. But better than blotters, in SWIM's opinion, if one is properly connected in phantasy lala-land dreaming, there are sources where, instead of 'drops' or 'blotters' with unknown dosages, one buys in number of mics, and dissolved or concentrated as desired, or even crystals if one can handle... Anything other than this lower down is just dealer blabla talk, as far as SWIM is concerned..

but anyways this is all theoretical talk, SWIM doesnt know anything nor anybody, SWIM is good legal person

Yea I am going to have to ask for some sources on the LD50 of LSD. Its not entirely known however so there are mostly only estimates.

There are reports of people overdosing and dieing on LSD. Here is a link at erowid with some info.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

It does seem like the LD50 is higher then 12 mg from this data.

Anyway SWIMs two cents. Taking 10 hits of good acid is a waste (swim never took that much however). Good acid (~150 ug) one or two hits is plenty.

Look, I know what I'm talking about. SWIM saw a friend go to ER from taking a sheet of acid. SWIM also took a large dose once and experienced lots of unpleasant side effects. Thumbprint doses are nothing more than a myth and VERY DANGEROUS. If SWIM’s friend blacked out into a near coma state from 1 sheet of acid and had to be revived in the hospital, imagine what a large “thumbprint” dose would have done. He may have died.

I can’t believe people are stupid enough to risk their health like that.

Anyone taking “thumbprint” doses of LSD is a moron. That’s SO DANGEROUS.

SWIM has seen some people get all twitchy and pale and sweaty with racing hearts from as little as 5 hits of acid. SWIM has seen people develop seizures. He’s seen people black out from extremely large LSD doses. LSD is NOT non-toxic.

There are so many LSD users that will tell you LSD cannot harm you, it’s non-toxic, blah, blah, blah, but its NOT TRUE. LSD is just like any other psychedelic, if you take too much it will harm you. There have been enough cases of people admitted to ER with life threatening symptoms of LSD overdose, that anyone thinking it’s non-toxic is an idiot. It is a toxin and it can kill you if you take enough. Most ER cases end in full recovery, but what about the people who don’t make it to ER who are experiencing hemorrhages, coma, etc.? What about them? They probably just die and we don’t hear about it. If someone unimportant dies from taking an LSD overdose, is an autopsy going to be performed? Probably not. And even if one was, they never test for LSD poisoning unless specifically asked to do so, so how would you know how they died?

Although I think LSD is safe when you compare dose needed for effects to dose needed to get dangerous I also will agree with ron that taking excessive doses is NOT safe and a waste.