Hello, I am a new member, I have registered here to get feedback on an extraction experiment that I am conducting, and at the same time hope to join in the community by providing useful dialog and experimentation in the realm of ACRB extraction (And eventually p. cubensis extractions, and san pedro extractions). I'm no poet, nor very spiritual, so my contributions to the community will be of a scientific slant, so with that in mind, my introduction essay will be in the form of an experiment using the scientific method.

Below you will find my method outline, hypothesis etc. of my current experiment.

I would love questions, comments and any general feedback involving my methodology.

The focus of the experiment is on required heat, specifically boils done during the acidic phase of an ACRB extraction.

I am currently in the 3rd Freeze/Warming cycle, and should have a conclusion by the end of this upcoming weekend.

Question: Are acid boils necessary for an ACRB A/B Extraction.

Research: Numerous previous A/B extractions, extensive erowid, dmt-nexus and /r/dmt reading. Anecdotal observations; When doing a A/B of a previous ACRB extraction to improve quality of final product, it was noted that acidic water has very high DMT solubility, 4.3g of non pure (tan, waxy) DMT freebase crystals were completely dissolved in 75ml of PH3 water. This leads me to believe that an extraction can be done without boiling, and that an extensive soak with cold/warm temperature cycles will be enough to extract all the DMT from ACRB.

Hypothesis: Acid boils are not necessary.
Experiment: 200g of ACRB will be extracted using a 'soak and freeze' A/B extraction; the remaining bark will be subjected to an acid boil extraction. Yield from the Boil extraction will be measured.

Method:

Solution Creation.

Soak and Freeze
750ml of PH3 Distilled water will be prepared.
200g of ACRB will be placed in a blender with the 750ml of Water and blended until a fine shredded consistency is attained.
1TBSP of Non-Iodized Kosher Salt is added.
Solution is placed into a ZipLock brand food safe Freezer bag.
Solution is frozen solid, and thawed by placing it into a slow cooker on "Keep Warm" temp range is tested at 46 degrees C with a 1 degree variance.
Solution is kept at this temperature for at least an hour between freeze cycles.
The freeze/warming cycle is repeated a total of 3 times.
Solution is filtered with cheese cloth, and then the solution is again filtered with a fine coffee filter.
500ml of PH3 Water is then added to the separated plant matter, and freeze/warm cycled once more in order to capture any remaining alkaloids possible.
Solution is then filtered with cheesecloth and a coffee filter again. The two batches of solution are combined.
1 TSP of Zinc powder is then added to the solution.
The solution will be left in a dark area to naturally evaporate down to 750ml.
The solution is then filtered through a coffee filter twice to filter out the zinc powder.

Boil
750ml of PH3 Distilled water will be prepared.
The remaining plant material from the Soak and Freeze method will be combined with the PH3 Water
The solution will be subjected to a low boil for no less than one hour.
The solution will be closely monitored and water will be added to maintain the volume of liquid.
The solution will be filtered with cheesecloth and coffee filters in the same method as the soak and freeze prep.
Another 500ml of PH3 water will added and the same method of boiling and maintaining water level will be applied.
The plant matter will once again be filtered via cheesecloth and coffee filters, the resulting solutions will be combined and reduced to 850ml via slow boil
1 TSP of Zinc powder is then added to the solution.
The solution will be left in a dark area to naturally evaporate down to 750ml, this is mainly to allow the zinc to do its work.
The solution is then Filtered through a coffee filter twice to filter out the zinc powder.

Extraction
Both solutions will be subjected to 100ml of naphtha to remove excess fats and oils, the naphtha will be decanted, labeled and set aside until the method has been completed to insure no loss of final product.
The defat step will be repeated on both solutions a second time.
Both solutions will have their PH raised via Lye to a minimum of 13.
100ml of Light naphtha will be used to extract the alkaloids
Naphtha will be decanted and freeze precipitation used.
Naphtha will be recycled and reused on their respective solutions until crystals no longer form during freeze precipitation.
The remaining naphtha used in the extraction step will be evaporated
Final yields will be measured.

Materials used:
200g ACRB
Distilled Water
Kosher Salt
Zinc Powder
600ml Light Naphtha.
Fumaric Acid
Lye

Tools Used:
Glass crystalization trays with PTFE airlight lids.
Glass pipette
1 Litre Mason Jars
Stainless Steel Cookware
Ziplock brand foodsafe freezer bags(Large)
Digital Scale
Digital PH Tester

Expectations: The yield from the acid boil will be nearly non existent.

Conclusions: Unknown

Hi CanadianHaze,

Welcome to the Nexus

I don't have any feedback for you, but you would probably find this thread of interest:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=48614

Happy Experimenting,
wap

Thank you!

And yes that was an interesting read, I hope to definitely solve the back and forth conjecture in that thread.

If the acid boil does produce a usable quantity of final product, I (and my friends) will blind test the effects of both products to determine if heat does indeed effect the end trip.

Interesting ! I'm waiting for results.

One more thing could be interesting also : once you finished with the boils, you could try a STB(at least 1 week soak at pH 13 to be sure to lyse cells) with the remaining bark to know if there is still something in it .




Happy extraction and [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] on you and your friends

Nice experiment! A couple of notes:

1: i haven't seen freeze-thawing doing any difference, yield-wise, so maybe that it is not necessary. Repeated freeze-thaw cycles damage dissolved molecules so you may not want to overdo this freeze-thaw thing.

2: no-boil extractions extract ~75%of the total yield in two of my past experiments with mhrb. You may get something along this numbwer.

3. You do not need to do a no-boil vs boil. Just see how much you get out of the no-boil, then boil the acrb to extract the rest. Get the total yield and caclulate % of what you got by non-boiling and % of what you got extra by boiling.

1. I have only read anecdotal accounts of freezing increasing yield, can you elaborate on the damage molecules? specifically in regards to the DMT molucule.

2. I am hoping for something closer to 80-90% but we shall find out soon! I plan on doing the boils tonight, extractions tomorrow.

3. I think my plan outline is misleading, this is exactly what my plan is, I will do the soaks on the 200g of bark, and then do the boils on the same 200g. Then compare results.

On the fly modifications to date: second soak and boils bumped up to 750ml, not 500ml, I was misguided in just how much liquid would remain trapped in the bark, from the 750ml of the original soak, only 500~ml was recoverable after filtering and squeezing the plant material.

Update, some delays in the planned timeline with some concerns. I have encountered a very odd phenomena when defatting both samples, the naphtha turned into a foamy-jelly consistency. I have seperated out the 'jelly' and saved the samples in case the DMT is in it. I have this suspiscion because when I basified the samples, they did turn black, however no/very little clouding of precipitated alkaloids were observed. In addition, the samples took a very long time to filter after the respective soaks and boils, and a clay like silt was filtered out. I hope this was just some soil/clay that was on the roots, not nonetheless, filtering the samples took almost a full day!

Initial pull of both samples is in progress, I will have another update tomorrow morning

Finally an Update!

I had some issues getting the pulls done, too much solvent I think, I let some evap and now the spice is flowing.

The soak sample has produces great results, from my estimations there is almost a gram of spice produced from this sample, I will have final weight and pictures posted once I am satisfied everything has been pulled.

The boil sample size has produces almost no DMT, just a couple very small crystal formations in the glass tray on top of a film of clear NMT.

You can't really make this claim without analysis...

True, its an anecdotal observation currently, CO2 treatment with the heptane recrystalization will be the deciding factor. Dry ice is such a pain to get in Canada though, I may just use a mickey-moused plant grow co2 canister to get the NMT out of the way, Also looking into a yeast bubbler, but I dont think it will produce the quantity I need.

But realistically, when working with ACRB, and you have a small crystal formation, on top of a layer of clear gel after a freeze precip, what else besides NMT could it be?

DMT can present as gel/goo, albeit usually not clear. DMT/NMT combinations could easily be clear and gel-like (and would be quite different than pure NMT). Physical appearance just isn't enough to make claims about chemical identity.

First results are in!

Extraction is complete, I will not attempt to isolate/remove the NMT from the results(Mainly due to no access to dry ice, and other methods being unwieldy or problematic)

Soak: http://imgur.com/a/MIObw
Boil: http://imgur.com/a/5cfKG

I will answer any questions I can.

I will be weighing the results tonight and posting the weight, bio-assay will be in the coming week.

http://imgur.com/a/hI13I

Side by side after collection.

Soak: 1.947g
Boil: 0.347g

The soak scraped up great, got pretty much every last bit, the boil goo was not so easy, theres probably 30-50mg stuck to the glass tray that cannot be scraped up.