Hello, sooner or later I'll *hint* be able to post deeper into the forums than the noob area.*hint*

Anyway. I'm 42, live in Somerset UK and am a reasonably seasoned psychonaut who's recently ventured into DMT space.
I've posted a couple of reports but so far have been through five experiences. Naturally, all of them have been jaw -droppingly strange. I've been thinking hard about the duty of a user to report their experiences as accurately as possible. Words often fail because of what we know as the 'Un-Eglishable' nature of the experience. Well, some people are gifted with a great vocabulary, sure, but it has always been argued that a picture can be worth a thousand words.

I know that this fine site hosts a lexicon of sorts. I think this is very worthwhile. I'm going to propose that we collectively work together on a project that can further deepen artistic expression and perhaps, given time, coney more accurately imagery that nails the nature of the DMT experience. You can't take a camera with you on your trips but you can take your ability for recall.

The main thing I have observed during my primary experiments, is that what we see is bewilderingly complex due to the multiple layers of visual information. It makes relaying the experience visually, a bit of a creative headache. Where do you begin?

I got thinking of a kind of group effort solution. Whether you are artistic or not, if you go to DMT space, there's something we can all collaborate on and do.

Here's what I propose.

1.For the artists amongst us, we could begin with choosing to focus on one element of the experience first. For me, once my eyes are closed, I've seen very fine geometric patterns that appear to resemble tessellated laser beams. They have a certain regularity of occurrence . I'm not skilled in animation so, doing something animated won't be a good starting point. I wonder, do we all see these patterns? Are they the same patterns?

So, if we choose to pay attention to just the primary patterns and attempt to recreate just the patterns for a couple of smokes (or however we are taking it) then ignoring all other things, entities, later details etc, we could in theory begin a visual lexicon with images corresponding with one element of the experience . Post your best approximations on the forum and people can verify or suggest whether this is a common and accurate motif or not.

2. Second step: I know behind those primary patterns, that other things emerge, things that are going on elsewhere in the frame. For example, multiple light sources. Are they going on behind the patterns, sometimes in front? What colours are they ? Can we render it using photoshop?

3. The oft mentioned entities: Where are they? Do mine look like yours? Do two people see the same kind? Once again, the onus is on accurate depiction. I don't think doing a felt tip pen rendition will cut it, we don't hallucinate in felt tip imagery.

4. Spacial dimensions: Is it a room, is it a chamber, is it a dome? etc etc

What I'm proposing is a drive for visual accuracy and some open source graphics at the end of it. A visual lexicon may be just what is needed to allow budding artists to use one good quality jpeg, layered on top of another jpeg that acts as a kind of visual alphabet that anyone who's been there will instantly recognise. It may also help those who struggle with a pen but might have a rudimentary grasp of photoshop and its layers system to start communicating their own experiences.

The aim is noble, as this entheogen is part of the human experience, then art is going to be the closest thing we can get to immediately sharing our perspectives on what we are being brave enough to go through.

I'm left wondering how complex this visual alphabet could get? In being cartographers of hyperspace, we have a responsibility to reduce the barrage of lazy fractal images and come up with something that more uniquely describe 'the bewildering higher dimensions' Of course, it will take time.

I pledge that on my next two to three excursions, I will focus on whatever the primary pattern layer of the experience is and do my best to create what I see. I'd like to think that some of you will welcome this challenge and do the same.

Who's in?

(A few weeks later)

Well, that went down like a lead balloon...

Although your proposition is commendable, I think the lack of responses might be because the very nature of a DMT experience is so intangibly full of motion and so unimaginably complex that to try and capture anything objective to bring back to "normal" reality strikes most seasoned DMT users as an impossible task. Even the sub-breakthrough doses are difficult to describe or represent, and knowing that these effects are the mere tip of a universe sized iceberg makes talking about such threshold effects sort of like trying to describe a tree as though to do so might capture the majesty and grandeur of an endless, forested mountain range.

My opinion is that identity and the sense of oneness experienced through DMT are mutually exclusive; one cannot bring ego intact along for the ride during a breakthrough DMT experience, much in the same way that one cannot bring back FROM the DMT experience anything that makes much sense to reality as it is experienced subjectively through the ego, (apart from simple, grand truths that when not in DMT hyperspace seem too simple to be fully understood, for example "everything is everything".

Even the best artistic representations of the DMT space are so abstract that despite being uncanny in their familiarity, they are still almost too alien to make much sense of from sober reality; All this despite the fact that artistic representations of DMT space only ever at best vaguely capture a handful of the infinitely fractal aspects of DMT space.

It is simply just too different and too mind-blowing for any justice to to be done it with words or images, because to try and represent DMT space in our "normal" dimensionality of existence is a contradiction in that a solid DMT experience is in direct defiance of our spacial and temporal dimensions of our "normal" existence. It would be like a stick figure drawn on a sheet of paper trying to describe the 3D nature of a vivid sunset from the vantage point of a pristine beech with dynamically beautiful crashing waves. Even if the stick figure could smoke something that let him see the majesty of this scene, he would have no way of representing it in part or in full once he returned to his 2D existence

Thanks for responding. I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Here are a small number of considerations...

1. From a personal level (based on the five times I've taken it so far) there were reoccurring motifs that were recognisable from the times before. In my mind, it suggested a certain visual continuity.

2.When I saw the artwork of Hakan Hisim, after these experiences, I noticed (other than his fine talent for expressing qualities of it) that he'd replicated certain visual symbols I'd recognised from my own experiences. To a certain extent, and in a similar fashion, the artist Luke Brown, seems to nail an essential visual quality of the Hyperspatial dimension. If you look at their work side by side, it is impossible to argue that they are visually tapping into the same frequency.

3.Remember how Fractals/The Mandelbrot set, make several million acid heads jump up and say 'Hey! That's what I saw" Or that the motif of Paisley patterns is so lysercially familiar?

So, what I'm arguing in a nutshell, is that in spite of the overall experience being of a nature that seems almost impossible to capture (and for that I have to agree with you) I'd argue that there are elements that can be extracted that show a commonality of experience from user to user. It's the details that interest me, 'Do you get those tessalated cuboid, Y patterns as well?" If yes, how many others also see them?

I'm not saying that these things can be deciphered, but it could be argued that by at least taking responsibility to faithfully extract certain symbols and motifs, with dedicated and ruthless attention to detail, we may yet collectively begin to build a visual map of the territory.

If certain symbols or themes are common, then it might suggest that a person with a dedicated attention span, may eventually enter DMT space and see beyond the common glyphs and symbols to extract more exotic information.

This doesn't have to be an ego process for projecting reason onto the unreasonable. I'm thinking in the same vein as the collection of data that say for example studies the commonality of NDE's between individuals around the world.

These DMT trips by linguistic description are all fair and well, great reading but do they reallyconvey the experince to the person who's never tried it? You could argue that one just has to 'smoke it and see'. I just firmly believe that as the experience is mainly visual, art is the primary candidate for bringing Hyperspace into the wider community, but, there should be a certain diligence in replicating the details as authentically as possible. It's not a bad aim, the more people involved, the more there is to show.

I believe global already started a thread on such a topic, I'll try and locate it. There are Def similar styles and shapes and designs that many people experience in hyperspace. So this isn't a bad idea.

Don't know where the thread is but there's this one. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=24280

Have you seen the Codex Hyperspacialis thread?

Thanks for the replies, those threads are heading in the right direction though not generally concise. Alas, I'm unable to contribute comment and conversation as I'm still stuck in the Noobs holding area with restrictions to posting in this section only. Anyone here a kind hearted mod?

Asking for membership is a very good way of "not getting it".

Patience is a virtue. membership is attained not from asking for it, but deserving it.

oh boy.

Well, while this personal tumbleweed blows its merry course through the desert, can you recommend a page here that can tell me how to post an image correctly. I tried a few weeks ago and failed.

Thanks.

Two ways. If the image is located on the interwebs, you can use the IMG code (found as a button while posting a new post).

If the image is located on your computer then when you are creating a new post to the left of the buttons that say "Preview" "Post" "Cancel" is a check box that says "attach files to this post".

The rest is self explanatory.

Thanks, I'll have another go.

Success! OK, well, this image is interesting to me because it was actually seen during meditation the day after I'd had my last trip into hyperspace. I found it curious that the residue of my previous day had crept into a meditative vision. I don't know how many meditators are here, but I'd be interested to know if anything similar, as in DMT visuals have appeared on the natch after a trip.

By way of further introduction, I've attached another image that reflects to a certain degree, a snapshot of a previous experience in the zone/hyperspace/whatever we collectively call it. It almost nails it, though obviously, lacking in animation or refinement of those gloriously tight and intricate patterns. Does this ring true to anyone?

Here

Somerset eh?

I shall be down there next week...also hitting Avebury for the Solstice...hope the floods have receded.

Just so you know, new members are voted on by other members See Here and after enough votes you will be made a full member.
Just keep posting in a way aligned with our Attitude here and you'll be voted up in no time.

Nice bit of PS work you got there

I tend to get These on occasion.

Somerset isn't too bad at the moment, I was passing through Bradford on Avon a week or so ago and surprised at how it seemed that it had never been partially buried under several ft of water. No dinghy required.

Nice work by the way, really like your Lattice. Thanks for the props and info.

God, are we nearly at that time of year already???