I'm not sure if this has been covered here or not, but I have a few ideas I'd like to express in words right now.

I've spent my life utilizing disciplined approaches to understanding and overcoming challenges, but I've never understood the origin of this (why it is I am driven by this?). I've never understood why it feels perfectly natural for me to go off and do elaborate and difficult things alone that other people would never do. Studying Buddhism has answered a lot of my questions, but some questions remain. Among them, I have to wonder if the universal story of Campbell's "The Hero's Journey" is really a reflection of the grand cycle of life, of which can be explained by Buddhism. It's the intuitive knowing of why we're here. It's the part of the dream we know is a dream but doesn't wake us up. Lucidity prevails, and the adventure continues.

It's occurred to me that spiritual elements in life are simply plot devices for the unknown... Life is magical.

Thoughts? I'm hoping to start a discussion.

Love to all,
Warrior

I have just yesterday finished reading "The Hero with a Thousand faces" by Campbell. What strikes me is that I see all different kind of manners to approach that same exact thing what you talk about and it has been done throughout the ages. And here we are doing and searching the same thing.

It goes from yoga, meditation, trance dance, sound healing, psychedelics, alchemy and so many more, it is truly astonishing.

What is a psychedelic experience then not venturing into your own cave in search of something? In search of the world, in search of the essence that makes us alive. Life is indeed magical my friend, and I am glad to be here!

I'm starting to believe the internal landscape of emotional experience is the map to the unknown. The more sensitive and attuned you are, the better oriented you can become within the abyss of the rabbit hole so as to bring something to share with the outside world. Language is a gift. Without it, I wonder if it's even possible to integrate the riddles and paradoxes that can be experienced in this world. Experiencing alone doesn't feel like enough for me. I need something I can share with the outside world. I need to build something for others, unselfishly. Otherwise it feels futile. It fits both the Hero's Journey, and it fits the distinction between the Pratyekabuddha and the Bodhisattva.

It gives me chills to make this connection. I feel humbled on so many levels.

We are wired for the hero's journey, along with other archetypal journeys. This is why 90% of the movies are of this type, we identify with it an archaic level. I can barely watch one anymore though, once you've taken a real journey the pale mirrors doesn't reflect as well.

Yes, but WHY do you suppose that is? If it is part of one universal truth in life, wouldn't that indicate something substantial about the source of this dream we live? I'm trying to make a mathematical statement here. One. One is the key concept. To me it feels like intent. It feels like purpose. And if it is the one true purpose, then could it have been the intent of the Other when he decided to take this journey?

We all desire the completion of our journey to heroic success. To truly give something back to this world for the soul purpose of helping the life for others thrive. It is a responsibility once you obtain a certain amount of knowledge. Once we put it to use our knowledge becomes wisdom.

In my eyes we are all heroic for continuing our journey with every breath we take. Regardless of knowing if we are aware of what we are doing or where we are going. We are indeed fulfilling our divine destiny here on earth.

If anything, i find it a sin to remain idol in life, when we are given so much. I don't desire to be remembered as a name, i desire for my achievements to be recognized as an improvement for the good of man.

So I guess the big question then is (and maybe this is yet another Koan in disguise), is the path of the Bodhisattva one of desire? If desire leads to suffering, then it would be oxymoronic to try to share any sense of enlightenment with anyone at all. It's almost as if the great flow of life is either an engaging path we accept, or a disengaging path of isolation (Pratyekabuddha). I know different disciplines hold the Pratyekabuddha with different esteems. Some look down on the Pratyekabuddha. Others consider it differently.

To me it's the same question as to what to do with yourself during the psychedelic experience. Part of me always feels like I'm on a mission to understand incredible things and bring them back, and I work tirelessly with pen, paper, and recording device. But the best experiences are full immersion with lying back and doing nothing more than listening to music, shared with a friend or loved one (but it feels slightly hedonistic). Or go in while meditating in nature, or next to a campfire.

This reminds of a parable I heard not long ago. A man comes across another man meditating in the forest alone. He asks him, "what are you doing?" The meditator replies "experiencing nothingness," followed by "what are YOU doing?" To which is replied "I'm conquering the world!" They both laugh.

The moral, I have been told, is that both paths are equal and valid. I just hope that's not the popular spin on it to help people that are suffering cope with their pain. Life feels like a great flowing unfolding. What lies ahead could be anything, and I believe we simply have no control over much of anything. Where we point our focus, and our emotional response are possibly the only things we have much say in.

The Masks of God, Vol. 2: Oriental Mythology is worth a read in relation to this topic.

As far as a hero's journey... could it be related to vertebrate instinct?

It does not seem isolated for our species, an inherent concept of protagonist seems implicit in most of chordate life to me.

I only think we have come to describe it with language and represent it with symbol, but believe it pertains to something that perhaps even insects, even spiders are involved with.

Maybe even plants.

The seed goes on a journey to a strange land, the seed overcomes challenges of survival, the seed is aided by mutualism, it produces seed and pollinates others in it's group thus providing them with aid because it survived. The seed cannot stay in the seed pod, the child cannot stay at the home of the parents, the sling cannot stay on mother spiders back, ergo the call... so on and so forth. It seems to be related to life itself.

Thanks for the reference. I'll check it out.




I can totally see that. I had this particular experience in the desert and felt like every thorn of the cacti was trying to send me a very direct message. Cacti seem to be scared to death. No joke, I felt like I could empathize with the life in that inhospitable environment devoid of water like they were all supremely afraid of dying, yet on a mission to propagate without harm or injury, just like any other sentient creature. It must be very heroic to live like that, even amongst hundreds of thousands of seemingly identical cacti.

Perhaps in a way the monomyth reflects that survival instinct or aspect found within all life. We have the aspect of adapting our methods and learning, and the monomyth inevitably has the hero doing both. Buddhism is also about such things, for me it is more about lifestyle than an end goal.

In the early Pali scriptures of Buddhism, it is actually tanha that causes suffering, not our English sense of the word "desire." Tanha literally means "thirst," but it is often translated as "craving." I think that this kind of intense thirst or craving is different than "desire." Desire is an English word with many connotations-- it can mean intense, addictive craving or thirst, of course, but it can also mean a more simple kind of want or need. "I am hungry now, I desire food."

And so basically what I'm saying is that desire for the bodhisattva ideal is not necessarily the same as Tanha. Of course, if the yogi lets this desire become perverted and becomes super attached and obsessed with his/her desire for the bodhisattva path, then this become tanha. Tanha is the kind of desire that nags at us in our minds constantly, that is never fulfillable and only leads to a sense of "I'm not there yet, I don't have it, this isn't it." There are three forms of tanha: craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, and craving non-existence. Again it comes down to the middle way: it is okay to want enlightenment, to recognize and affirm this desire and diligently practice toward the attainment of this goal, but we must be careful not to let it become an addiction or a wheel around minds constantly are turning, NEEDING. Because the Buddhist path is all about letting go.

So basically all I want to contribute to this discussion is that in Buddhism there are said to be forms of wholesome desire. Desire for enlightenment is one such wholesome desire.

I also agree Albert that Buddhism is more about lifestyle than goal