Gonna post this here for now until I get promoted...

Okay, so I've had an interest in ayahuasca/DMT since I was a teenager and by now I have what a I regard as pretty advanced knowledge. I've read all the essentials (DMT: Spirit Molecule, Supernatural, TiKHAL, etc.) and experienced smoking DMT for the first time in the last few months (probably around 12 times now). Just trying to qualify here.

Now, of course, the one awful thing about smoking it (besides that it can be pretty terrifying and fries my lungs) is that everything is SO damned fleeting. I can't really get a grip on any of the cool stuff that I'm experiencing. It's all just such a whirlwhind rocketblast tour of another dimension that I feel like I'm missing a lot.

My question is: what are my other options?

I've seen ayahuasca kits on here, are they legit? Any good recent TEKs or advice to cut the nausea? Any other sources of P. viridia and B. caapi?

What exactly is 'pharmahuasca'?

Could an MAOI be used in conjunction with smoking it to slow the metabolism as it does orally?

Has anyone actually used it IM? I imagine it'd have to be pretty pure...

What is the latest on phallaris grass? I used to keep current on it, but interest lagged after awhile. I HAVE p. aquatica seeds but as I remember theres some sort of harmful alkaloid in those and it has to be vaped or something? Any info in this vein is appreciated.

Mod Edit: No talk of sourcing here. Please read the Attitude Page

Thanks a lot. Not to be a weirdo but my recent experiences with DMT and LSD have been really postive and have helped me out of a sort of creeping malaise.

... and I haven't seen any machine elves yet!!!

Hi AgentClaret! Welcome to the Nexus

Firstly, I wouldn't ever buy an aya kit. You have no idea what the quantity of both DMT and harmalas are, which can be very unpropitious. Buy the ingredients and make the brew yourself. There is a whole ayahuasca section on this forum, which will tell you everything you need to know.

I understand your qualms regarding smoked DMT. However, if vaporised efficiently with a MAOI in the mix (i.e. changa), it can closely resemble ayahuasca in a smoked form... without being too hard on the lungs.

Pharmahuasca is the extracted DMT (in salt form, like DMT fumarate for example) and extracted harmalas, which are taken orally, instead of brewing the plants for a period of time to make aya.

People have indeed IM'd DMT, but I wouldn't recommend it. You need to have some really clean extract in salt form to do so, and a kitchen lab wouldn't suffice IMO.

Don't worry so much about "seeing machine elves", as many people don't see them or entities for that matter. Let the drug work it's magic without any expectations.

Lastly, stay safe

Hey Kermit! Thanks for the quick reply!

The Machine Elves thing was a joke, I would imagine anything entity like would be entirely subjective. Now, GIANTS on the other hand...

I'm just now learning about changa. For some reason I've been assuming for years it was like a native nickname for one of the roots. This does sound more up my alley.

How long does changa last? What sort of smoking apparatus is required? I'm new here so I'm not even going to ask about acquisition, but any info is appreciated!

What MAOIs are known to be used with DMT? As I asked before, could I take any kind of artificial MAOI to prolong the smoked effect, or does it have to be something close to harmaline?

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on DPT (dipropyltryptamine)? I can't help but be intrigued by what I've read of that...

Good answer from poster above. Also, did you check the FAQ and the take some time around the wiki in general? That should help answering at least some questions.

Welcome to the Nexus btw!

Hi Endlessness! Yeah, I've lurked around here for a bit (years actually) and have probably forgotten a good deal of the info I've gleaned. I actually downright had a wrong understanding of changa to begin with, I guess! I've pored over the wiki and Erowid entries on DMT and read all the essential mainstream literature (from Shulgin to Strassman to Hancock etc.)

Not getting defensive or anything, just trying to qualify my knowledge for your benefits a little more!

Cool, it`s always good to have been exposed to such information already...

We have been updating the FAQ and wiki over the years constantly, so there might be a lot of new stuff you didn`t read yet.

When I say check the FAQ, I don`t mean offense, I truely think that there could be good info for you.. I have personally poured a good deal of my time in the FAQ and wiki, and if you haven`t read it front to back lately and are having a lot of questions about DMT extraction or use, chances are you will find information you are looking for there. Do check it out and let me know if there`s anything else you can`t find answer to.!

Ah yes, I'm sure it totally wouldn't hurt. The last time I got real up to date on the latest info was about 2.5-3 years ago. Will be browsing through for the next few days!

Hi AgentClaret,

I would also recommend reading about some of the cultures that have traditionally used Ayahusca or Yagé first hand. Hoffman's Plants of the Gods has a good section on the ethnobotany of Yopo and Ayahuasca or maybe check out anthropologist Jeremy Narby's The Cosmic Serpent. Here's a link to some other great books. The peoples who have traditionally used these substances have intimate knowledge of this medicine. They have names worth learning to properly contextualize the experience. If you've already read those, do carry on

I felt the need to mention these cultures because my first experiences with Ayahusca were in the Amazon and these traditions need allies, people to speak their names and know their stories. Everywhere these shamanic cultures are found, they are under one form of attack or another. Of course getting the chemistry right is essential for any DIY psychonaut. Good luck!

One thing you could try is extracting your own Harmalas from Rue seeds or Caapi vine and fill a capsule with a freebase Harmala dose. And then drink a clean and tasteless Acacia or Mimosa or Chaliponga tea by using egg whites when making the tea. It's what i'm doing right now and it's really satisfactory for me. I also mix in 1 gram of Lemon Balm with my Acacia tea to stop any nausea or stomach issues, allowing to me experience this powerful medicine. I'm not sure if what i'm doing would be considered Pharma or Aya/Ana, but it's awesome either way. Though if you venture the extracted Harmala route, do note that dosage is key, and you can either simply boost DMT with just enough Harmalas or make it more Harmala heavy to really bring about the magic.

Just my two cents.

Btw, you can also of course take the Harmala capsule and smoke DMT once the Harmalas are kicked in (which for me is about 2 hours after ingestion). It does slow the onset of the DMT but smoked DMT isn't for me, i much prefer to take it orally.

"Phallaris grass contains gramine, which is really toxic"

This is speculation for the time, and not a fact..and has been heavily disputed. I am not sure where this comes from. Gramine is not extracted with most of the np solvents being used, like naptha or limonene. Gramine is definatly not responsible for sheep staggers..and it was once sold as a supplement without any toxic deaths etc.

I deleted that sentence in my post. Thanks for the clarification, Jamie.

Well it sorta seems to me that the jury is out on phallaris. Guess I'll just keep holding onto those seeds.

the jury isn't out.
it's perfectly safe.

it is just that it is far from a clean source of dmt, in fact the extract may even be a cocktail of alkaloids that doesn't even contain dmt

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Phalaris_spp.#Alkaloid_Content

Thank you kindly for that! I got a ton of catching up to do on these FAQs!

It depends on the species and strain of course. Some have been found to be rather clean DMT sources. Others have higher ammounts of other tryptamines/beta carbolines and sometimes little to no DMT. The idea we have come to that these things are just "DMT sources" is kind of missing the point a bit I think. Dont expect random phalaris to be a psychotria or mimosa analogue. Phalaris grasses are they're own unique tryptamine medicines. Some, while still entheogenic, are nothing like other DMT sources.

If anyone is seriously considering this, than please read these threads carefully..and be careful. having random people with little experience going after any grass they can get ahold of in search of DMT flash is probly not what we need right now. We need serious research from those who respect the plant for what it is. It is good to be aquainted with DMT before hand also so you can better judge the effect.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=41419
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=48635

That is most relevant to wild arundinacea..but understand that wild aquatica can varry as well..

I'm assuredly going to scour those and would probably run across the answer to this eventually, but does anyone have any info/link handy on how to test your phallaris for gramine and other lameness?

no. There is no spoon feeding here sorry. I mean it, there is so little realistic and up to date data on phalaris grasses for use as entheogenic tryptamine sources that YOU(and whoever else) has to be invovled in doing this work for that to happen. I have made myself into my own guinea pig and consumed these extracts more than anyone else I know of since the entheogen review times. It is a risk and you are the mercy of the plants. You have to be prepared to do this as well if you want to do this work. I have had some bad times and some wonderful times working with these extracts. There is definatly entheogenic medicines there..but there is a LOT to be worked out at this point. Even variations in the season, weather cycles etc seem to make a difference.

read the threads, gramine is not soluble in limonene, naptha or sunflower oil. It will not end up in the extract.

I really dont want people comming here thinking that they can just pull up some grass, do some quick A/B and watch a snowglobe of DMT in the freezer overnight. Sorry if I sound harsh. I really want to drive home to people the realization that this is more than just a DMT source.

Those other alkaloids might not be just "lameness". Many of them are entheogenic tryptamines and beta carbolines in they're own right. They might be far more potent than DMT(like 5meoNMT) or less potent..we dont know..they might synergize with the DMT present to create a fuller experience. You might have a strain high in both 5meoDMT and beta carbolines..

This is why we need serious research and experimentation.

Well, that's an elaboration of what I'm asking! How does one test for the presence of DMT, 5-MEO, etc.? Ir there's such a wide variation in strains then it seems like it'd be prudent to assay each one to see what your getting into. I'm merely asking if there's any precedence in doing this so I know where to start looking.

And of course phallaris is a source of other alkaloids, pretty much every DMT containing substance is. But DMT is presumably what one is looking for so forgive my particular interest in that.

So you've condescended to me, likened me to an amateur and mocked my choice of words. I'm not feeling the love, my friend!

I'm an avid reader but I think you can admit there's a LOT to brush up on here, right? Even spending several hours browsing FAQs a day I'm still going to need some time to catch up to your level. If you insist on me getting there the hard way without the benefit of those who've gone before me, then it will be a more difficult path but I can surely do it!

TLC is the only way for the kitchen chemist to analyze the chemical constituents of an extract
its a bit of a process to learn and preform.
not necessarily difficult, but you do need the right equipment for it (if you DO decide to make your own TLC plates, you can buy pre-powdered silica gel and plaster of paris online for super cheap).

Here's an overview of testing methods:

How do analytical methods work? (TLC, UV-Vis Spectrophotometry, GC-MS, LC-MS, etc)

Happy reading,
Wap