 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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 "together, hand-in-hand with our sticks of matches, with our necklaces, we shall liberate this country" - winnie mandela mandela had noble goals, but he was, without question, unnecessarily violent in attaining his goals. not say he isn't an alright guy, just maybe nowhere near as big a saint as people make him out to be. My wind instrument is the bong CHANGA IN THE BONGA! 樹
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You can't deny what he have done for apartheid and the 18 years of prison he did (in a cell where he couldn't lying down, as he was to tall). Every man make mistakes.
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Posts: 58 Joined: 18-Apr-2013 Last visit: 01-Dec-2021
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I don't think he did anything more for humanity than most other good-hearted people, to be honest. Not to dismiss the man, I'm hardly aware of his life story, but I also feel that I don't need to be. Each person do their own thing, and if they're good in their heart, then that's as great for humanity as anything anyone else could ever offer by doing something else. "As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved." - Christian AndréasonDude, that blonde girl is a total DMT/10.
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Hjortron wrote:I don't think he did anything more for humanity than most other good-hearted people, to be honest. Not to dismiss the man, I'm hardly aware of his life story, but I also feel that I don't need to be. If you are hardly aware of his life story how can you make an informed decision on what he did or did not do for humanity? Whenever i see the title of this thread i always think it says Nelson Mandala....
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 58 Joined: 18-Apr-2013 Last visit: 01-Dec-2021
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hug46 wrote:If you are hardly aware of his life story how can you make an informed decision on what he did or did not do for humanity? I can't. My point is that I don't think people who are famous for having done good in the world have done more for humanity than any given random unrecognized hero of everyday life might have done. I think that being loving and growing as an individual is the best thing anyone can ever do for humanity. To expand on this, take this into account: Quote:Why does the world seem to be completely insane?
Yes, it always appears that you are in a minority of sane people (or perhaps you are the ONLY sane person) in a sea of completely confused crackpots. The reason that so many other people seem completely confused and wrongheaded is that they use different symbols and metaphors to view the world. It is impossible to discuss important issues such as politics, families, violence, justice, etc. without resorting to symbolism. Anything that does not directly refer to something that can be physically sensed, such as justice or one's concept of God must be referred to by metaphor and symbol. If you and another use different symbols, you will be unable to communicate effectively. Some of the main metaphors in use today are:
Conventional religion Science Power, that is, dominance and submission Artistic and aesthetic worth Traditional political categories Material wealth and security Romanticism and relationships Honor, valor, and courage Bigotry, racism, and exclusivity Depth psychology (Freud, Jung, etc.) Humanism and "new age" psychology Traditional philosophy
Chances are that your views and beliefs about the world center around one or several of these metaphors. For example, if you see the world in terms of moral worth and submission to a higher law, you are conventionally religious. If you see the world in terms of cause and effect and experimenting to find the right solutions, you are oriented toward science.
People who share one or more basic metaphors will find that they can communicate effectively with one another and work together constructively. People who do not share any metaphors will usually be unable to regard one another with anything beyond fear, hostility, and contempt. Because of this lack of communication between groups, most discussions of important issues in the public arena quickly degenerate into grandstanding and name calling, because in the absence of real understanding between the disagreeing parties, only mob psychology is left to sway public opinion.
In all of this you may be left frustrated and unable to act, because you have not yet realized that:
The World Doesn't Want to be Saved.
The world is a teeming mishmash of cultures with a bewildering array of values and ideologies engaged in their own version of the good life. People are generally not interested in changing the metaphors through which they view the world, so real understanding between groups with conflicting viewpoints is not achievable in the short term. The good news is, that's OK, because the world isn't supposed to be saved on a global scale. It must be saved at the level of the individual. And despite the fact that the level of the individual appears to be statistically insignificant, it is in fact the most significant, because it is only at the level of the individual that a creative synthesis of conflicting metaphors can occur. Once a connection is made at the individual level, the process of spreading successful new metaphors throughout society is essential automatic if the society is ready for them. If the society is not ready, the new metaphors will not be accepted under any circumstances. So don't beat you head on a rock. Solve your own interpersonal communication problems. If the world is ready to benefit from your solutions, you will not be able to stop it from using them. Given this fact, Mandela was just at the right place at the right time. He was a good guy, yes, but he wouldn't have been able to do what he did hadn't society itself, i.e. millions of people, been ready to accept his message. That's why it's never really about any one individual, but the collective. Which leads me to my personal philosophy on this, for anyone who might possibly care, which is based on the writings of the second article here: Looking at specific deeds of an individual is to miss the point entirely about how much good they've actually done for the world. I apologize for the wall of text I've provided and the tangent I've gone on, but I do enjoy discussions.  "As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved." - Christian AndréasonDude, that blonde girl is a total DMT/10.
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Hjortron wrote:hug46 wrote:If you are hardly aware of his life story how can you make an informed decision on what he did or did not do for humanity? I can't. What?? I don"t understand.. You are saying that you cannot make an informed decision on the matter?? That is a very oblique way of debating. I like your style! Quote: Mandela was just at the right place at the right time. In prison for 27 years. That is neither the right place or the right time. Quote:Looking at specific deeds of an individual is to miss the point entirely about how much good they've actually done for the world. I am sorry, i must be thick but that doesn"t make sense to me. For me, looking at the deeds of an individual tells me exactly how much good they have done in the world. But i will concede on the subjective view on what is good and what is bad.
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