I had a very stimulating conversation with a new friend a few nights ago. We talked about everything from abortion, consciousness, to happiness, etc. Let's call it a philosophical conversation. Well somewhere near the end of this conversation I asked a question that I have thought about a lot in my life:

What would be next for us when all of our issues were to be solved?

Imagine you were to live in an enlightened world, with no form of disease (I use that word not just in the biological sense such as cancer, but also to say that there would be no poverty, political unrest, etc.) whatsoever. A world in which we fully understand the fabric of the universe and how is comes together and falls apart - a society that is one with everything and could literally do anything that it wanted. What then?

I suppose that in a parallel universe there is a society like this, and being that there are an infinite number of universes out there with the same vast number of opportunities I would feel safe to argue that there are an infinite number of these societies. What do you think it would look like? What would it be like? What happens when there is nothing left to do?

Before I say what I think, I would like to hear what people in our community think about this.

static and dead. Life exists through progression and evolution. Perfection would be a full stop. Ergo; perfection impossible, only total living gives true reality as far as I understand it

well it depends on what your talking about. It sounds like your speaking of the time at which we have solved every problem, figured out everything there is to figure out, know everything there is to know.

If thats the point in our evolution your talking about, well I have had this same conversation with a friend while really baked. So basically we get bored, and then we decide we want to experience something else. So we build a virtual reality machine where we can jack ourselves in and experience a completely different type of reality with different types of emotions ect.

The problem is this could turn into an infinite loop. Cause then we could accomplish the same end game where we're living in a virtual reality machine living in a virtual machine living in a virtual machine ect.

I'd argue there can never be a perfect world because perfection is subjective. While there may be a world *I* define as perfect, what are the chances the rest of humanity and all other living things agree with me?



You are working under the assumption that it is a fact that there are an infinite amount of universes. We don't even know if our own universe is finite or infinite. I am open to the idea of a multiverse, and possibly the existence of an infinite amount of universes. I don't see how you can make a solid argument at all that there are an infinite amount of these societies without assuming pure speculation to be fact.

For the sake of argument, lets say that you are right and there is even one society living in "perfect" (whatever that means) harmony. If that is true, then it is equally as likely that there is also an all powerful war-mongering society out there as well. How do these two fit together? To defend themselves, your civilization would obviously have to form some sort of defensive/offensive capabilities. Is your society still "perfect" if it were to go to war and slaughter another civilization even if it were in self defense?

A Dream Within A Dream

Take this kiss upon the brow!
And, in parting from you now,
Thus much let me avow-
You are not wrong, who deem
That my days have been a dream;
Yet if hope has flown away
In a night, or in a day,
In a vision, or in none,
Is it therefore the less gone?
All that we see or seem
Is but a dream within a dream.

I stand amid the roar
Of a surf-tormented shore,
And I hold within my hand
Grains of the golden sand-
How few! yet how they creep
Through my fingers to the deep,
While I weep- while I weep!
O God! can I not grasp
Them with a tighter clasp?
O God! can I not save
One from the pitiless wave?
Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?

~Edgar Allan Poe

Interesting, brokenChild. I see what you mean here. I also agree that we will find ourselves at a stand still. However, that surely wouldn't mean the end of life would it?

Consider the fig wasp: some species of fig wasps co-exist with specific species of fig trees and it is said that these wasps have not evolved in over 34 million years (Royal Society journal Biology Letters). Would this not be considered a perfect relationship?

Alert, I certainly do not think of the idea of a multiverse as fact, as I am no quantum physicist, although some in the scientific community claim its possibility. My reason for saying that was strictly for conversational purposes. I never said it was fact. Either way, it could eventually happen on our planet given that we do not destroy it first. Possibilities are endless, are they not?

Anyways, alert, rather than arguing on the semantics, what are YOUR thoughts? I don't think that I defined "perfection" anywhere in my post and I did that on purpose. In fact, I only used the word once in the title of the thread and that is mostly because of the saying, "in a perfect world...". It is only to stimulate thought.

If you would like to define your idea of perfection, please do. And if you'd like give us your thoughts on what that would look like that would be great. If not, that's great too.

As stated in my first post...

1.) I'd argue there can never be a perfect world. To expand on this, we live in a world duality. To have perfection implies imperfection.

2.) For the sake of argument, lets say that you are right and there is even one society living in "perfect" (whatever that means) harmony. If that is true, then it is equally as likely that there is also an all powerful war-mongering society out there as well. How do these two fit together?

RIGHT. That's exactly what I'm talking about and I found myself with a similar conclusion, although I really like that idea of yours of a machine within a machine. Very cool.

I was thinking something like that where we would just get bored and break everything apart just so that we could start all over. But I still wasn't satisfied because starting all over means we would just find ourselves in dis-ease again only to fix it at some point in the future.

would it be considered a perfect relationship? Just think about what "perfection" would mean... the whole concept of growth, progression, and evolution is tied into the idea that progress, or betterment, or improvement, is always possible. If everything is all of a sudden perfect, then there would be no need for continuity, since it would be static.

Another way to put this, is that everything IS already perfectly imperfect

1) That is if one believed in a duality, but good point. This would lead a dualist to believe that there is reason/no point in living/in not living. But is imperfection only a part of the physical plane, or do you think it is an intrinsic part of the make up of the universe?

Love it. Yeah that's exactly right, but in thinking that way do you not already live in a perfect/imperfect world? What then is the need for improvement, betterment, or progress if you dwell in the perfect? And evolution only occurs when need, ergo the fact that some species have ceased to evolve since they heave found their place in nature. They live in that "perfect" world where they can live until their bio clock runs out. Of course someone/thing can walk by and squish them, but would the buddah had cared if that had happened to him?

Touche, I guess on that note the purpose of existance would be pure experience of the ever new and unknown mystery that is life

Well, first off, let me start off by saying I am a non-dualist. I'm a student of both advaita vedanta and Zen. My experiences have led me to believe that the universe is actually made of consciousness, the highest level "I" have "experienced" is what I'd personally identify as either brahman or the godhead. This is "experienced" to me as a white light that is both infinite and formless. On this level I do not believe duality exists.

For whatever reason this infinite energy decided to express is self as this physical universe. In this physical universe I believe duality to be a fact. So yes, I would say that that for perfection to exist in this the physical plane imperfection must exist as well.

So this white light consciousness, brahman, is it perfect?

Haha ultimately we would just be experiencers and that is all. BUT WHAT THEN?!?!?!? AHHHHH!!!!! There need not be a 'what then' at that point considering we are enlightened, perhaps. But why be, then?

I wouldn't call it perfect, just what is. Simply infinite potential.

In other words (considering that what you call brahman or godhead is perfect, or even if it is imperfect/perfect) what would a society do when in line with this consciousness at all times? Obviously we would live in harmony, and yes a warrior culture can and probably will come and destroy them, but would they care? I doubt they would even flinch let alone try to save themselves. Right?

I like that better than a dualistic point of view..no ying, no yang, good, bad, whatever - just being, awareness.. That point of view seems to crumble duality and makes it an unnecessary layer of thought.

or yin and yang both; good and bad both; all dualities in one singular unity of course the thought is just a pointer to the state itself