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3,4-DMPEA Options
 
Zuckerwasser
#1 Posted : 11/14/2013 5:31:24 PM
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Hi when i was reading about cacti, i sometimes came across 3,4-DMPEA. So i searched in google and found on bluelight.ru someone reopting a trip with 3,4-dmpea and maoi.
I also wrote this person and he answered, that he gave the dmpea other people and all of them had nice experiences without side effects.

This is all i found here, only about DMPEA beeing a neurotoxin:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=7764

The report about DMPEA:
http://www.bluelight.ru/...AOB-I%29-not-experienced

Somewhere i read about Trout assaying Coryphanta macromeris. This cactus has macromerine, normmacromerine and some other not identified alkaloids, but macromerine and normacromerine is a such a low level, thats why maybe he had a possitive assay with the DMPEA. He told, he had a not so pleasent experience with Coryphantha, zonk from bluelight described a very pleasent and not long-lasting experience.
Here infos about using Coryphantha cacti:
http://psychotropicon.in...-coryphantha-macromeris/


He writes, it had a full psychedelic experience with strong visuals and that he was thinking of DMPEA being active for a long time or he heard it being active, i cant remember and at the moment the server is too busy.

So, what you think about it?
3,4-DMPEA is also in the Trichocereus bridgesii together with some maoi, maybe thats why its stronger then San Pedro whil having less mescaline.

Greetings, Zuckerwasser

quoting zonk at bluelight.ru:
Quote:
I had posted in another forum I received DMPEA, it was a large jug of foul smelling light brown liquid that smelled like ammonia and old urine as I had mistakenly obtained the freebase instead of HCl.

I had known all along that it would be active despite everyone else's dismissings. Shulgin's experiments with it made no sense what so ever and no conclusion could have been reached from them.

I didn't know what to expect, perhaps something like MDA or between MDA and Mescaline or a less visual form of mescaline.

My Pargyline arrived finally so now my experiments could begin. I haven't yet salted out the solution so my intranasal experiments will have to wait. The pargyline had yet another pungent smell. Kinda a weird slightly toxic citrussy smell.

I ate a capsule containing about 25mg pargyline(mao-b inhibitor and mao-a at higher doses).

15min later I botted 3ccs of ketamine. Never got into a khole but was nicely fucked up. About 30min later I noticed something very odd... Echoes, like I was tripping, this has never happened on ketamine and I can't see the pargyline to be trippy in anyway. So I waited another 45min to be completely down from the K and to make sure that no further psychedelic effects were experienced if pargyline did indeed produce them

45min nothing, The brief episode of echoes never remanifested so I decided to try the DMPEA. I didn't know at what does it would be active but I figured somewhere around mescaline's active dose so I took about (actually 2g)400mg(freebse liquid)mixed in Lemon juice which i impatiently drank a couple minutes later and tasted the oil, nothing salted, rinsed down with some milk.

30min later I noticed my heart rate seemed up, nothing alarming but I was still trying to be very (possibly)overly aware of my physical status as I think my heart rate was not as high as i thought it was.

Another 15min later I started getting a nice very comfortable bodyhigh. Skin felt comfortable although not as great as with MDMA, most psychedelic can actually make me feel a bit uncomfortable/odd at times, this was a nice feeling. Like I said, no energy, I kinda just wanted to lay on my bed. I got up and walked to the bathroom to check my pupils. I got to the bathroom and forgot to check my pupils but started getting alot of teeth chattering much like MDMA and some very mild/benign jaw clench. I was very surprised at this point.

There was no gushing of love or empathy but a decent contentment. I decided music is needed at this point. I started to notice everything had a sparklyness to it. Now keep in mind I have never actually done real mescaline. I tried to make san pedro tea once but ordered fresh cactus by accident and never felt anything and never bothered to try again. This sparklyness is something that I have noticed only mildly with the 2cXs(at any dose) but was very pronounced here.

The visuals quickly grew in intensity and became rather strong with tons of trails of moving/swirling. I turned the music on and ended up playing Pocket Universe by Yello which I had never heard before. It was like a 'weird' psy-trance album. I just lied there with eyes closed and had tons of CEVs. These were not like Fractals or patterns but like movies, not day dreams as they're visionary to the music and I had no control over them but they didn't seem as "real" as the ones I've heard described for MMDA. I would see weird creatures, they were really weird, not cool looking like i get with 5-meo-mipt,lsd or dmt, wchich always have fractal covering the whole scene more weird, probly due to my set/setting and the music i was listening to but still fun to watch.

I did puke twice during this whole experience, once around 1 hour into the actual trip and again an hour later. During each puke it seemed bad as I dont usually puke and haven't in a while. I would dry heave a few times but it was odd, all the sudden during the heave i would think to myself "there's no reason for me to be puking" and then I'd stop with no more nausea, but I still kept it lying down. I did taste some of the nasty oily freebase DMPEA in the puke which I thought would have been fully digested by then. In recent years I have developed a weird nausea to psychedelic phenethylamines, last couple times I took 2cp I was deathly ill and severely nauseous for 2 days, and when I took doc i was on the verge of puking through out almost the entire trip, but only puked once. This it was just the 2 times, although I can't say if i was upright if it might be a different story.

The whole trip lasted about 8 hours and when I came down a felt happy but no other side effects what so ever. This was definatley one of the best trips I've had. I've tried AMT,doc,2cp,2cd,2cb,2ce,2ct2,2ct7,dipt,dpt,4-ho-mipt,4-ho-met,4-ho-det,4-ho-dipt,5meodmt,lsa,lsd,dmt,ayahuasca,5-meo-mipt,shrooms,meph,mda,mdma,methylone

Of all those only DMT/ayahuasca, LSD, LSA(only once), 5-meo-mipt, mda, 2cp, mdma, and(sometimes) shrooms I would say are magical fully recreational trips and the best of the best being DMT/ayahuasca, 5-meo-mipt, lsd, mdma, well now I can add DMPEA+MAO-B inhibitor to the list. I'm very happy I tried this and I can't believe I waited this long to do so. I must have been the only person ever to have tripped off this which seems odd cause it seems so logical that this would be active giving it's structural simularities to MDA and mescaline. I would say(even though I've never tried mescaline)that this is just as visual and perhaps just as if not more magical as it has some euphoriant properties that seem more pronounced than the ones I've heard described with mescaline trips.

PS - Sorry for the long report

Things to come in my "Fun with MAOIs series"
For Part 2 I will try PEA mixed with DMPEA to see if the euphoric effects are more pronounced.

For part 3 I will try N,4-Dimethylphenethylamine+Pargyline to see how it compares to Meph

For part 4 I will try Tryptamine+harmaline/or higher dose of pargyline to see if it has psychedelic effects of it's own.

For part 5 I will do the same as part 4 but mixed with L-Me and b6,b12,folate
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Zuckerwasser
#2 Posted : 11/16/2013 7:40:53 PM
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Sry i push, i dont want this to be forgotten. But i think, this is are really interesting subject, as there is not much information, and a really low-cost substance (natural and legal) being a stong, pleasent psychedelic.

Maybe some of the "professional" drug-users, experienced ones, couldd say something about the info from bluelight?

 
expandaneum
#3 Posted : 11/17/2013 9:21:59 AM

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read the phikal entry,

and don't push Thumbs down
Disclaimer:
All Expandeum's notes, messages, postings, ideas, suggestions, concepts or other material submitted via this forum and or website are completely fictional and are not in any way based on real live experience.
 
sleepypelican
#4 Posted : 11/17/2013 9:35:28 AM

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What do you mean by "don't push"?
In dreams...I walk with you
In dreams...I talk to you
In dreams...Your mine
All of the time
We're together
In dreams...In dreams
 
Zuckerwasser
#5 Posted : 11/17/2013 11:24:00 AM
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I know the pikhal entry.

Please read my post, there is also a positioning by zonk to the pikhal entry.
 
endlessness
#6 Posted : 11/17/2013 12:29:51 PM

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DMPEA is found in:
Lophophora wiliamsii (Lundström and Agurell, 1968a)
Trichocereus pachanoi in 0.005% - 0.0005% fresh cactus (Agurell 1969b)
Trichocereus peruvianus (Pardanani et al 1977)
Trichocereus werdermannianus (Lundström 1970a)
Echinocereus merkeri (Agurell et al 1969)
Pachycereus pecten-aboriginum (Bruhn and Lindgrenilosocereus maxonii (Pummangura et al 1977)
Islaya minor (Doetsch et al 1980)
Pereskia corrugata (Doetsch et al 1980)
Pereskia tampicana (Doetsch et al 1980)
Pereskiopsis scardens (Doetsch et al 1980)
Opuntia spinosior (Pardanani et al 1978 )
Cylindropuntia spp. (Meyer et al 1980)
Opuntia acanthocarpa - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Opuntia echinocarpa - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Polaskia chende - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Pterocereus foetidus - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Pterocereus gaumeri - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Stenocereus beneckei - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Stenocereus stelllatus - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Stenocereus treleasei - Main Alkaloid (shulgin 2011)
Neoraimondia arequipensis - Minor Alkaloid under 0.01% (shulgin 2011)
Opuntia exaltata - Minor Alkaloid under 0.01% (shulgin 2011)
Opuntia ramosissima - Minor Alkaloid under 0.01% (shulgin 2011)

It is potentially a bioprecursor to mescaline (shulgin 2011)

It was also found in legume Desmodium tiliaefolium (Ghosal and Srivastava 1973a)
and reported in Acacia rigidula (Clement et al 1998 )

It was reported in the urine of schizophrenic patients (15 out of 19) but absent in the urine of normal subjects (Friedhoff and Van Winkle 1962). The use of isotopically labeled material indicated endogenous source of it in urine of schizophrenic patients (Friedhoff and Van Winkle 1962, 1967). Again it was found in urine of schizophrenic patients but not normal (Sen and McGeer 1964), or it was found also in normal subjects but less often than schizophrenics (Takesada et al 1963). Free and conjugated DMPEA appeared in urine of both schizophrenics and normal subjects at comparable levels (Siegel and Tefft, 1971).

It appears urinary DMPEA had tea as its origin (Stabenau et al 1970)

DMPEA, bufotenine and N-Methylepinephrine were observed in th eurine of psychotic children (Perry, 1963). DMPEA was not present in the urine of schizophrenic patients who had controlled diets and were off of medication (Perry et al 1964).

Synthesis, TLC, GC, UV and other properties (Ono et al 1976)
C-NMR spectra (Bailew and Legault 1983)
Mass Spectra of this and other 54 phenetylamines (Kolliker and Oehme 2004)

C14 labeled DMPEA was used to explore the biosynthesis of mescaline in Lophophora williamsii (Lundström and Agurell 1968b). Injection of C14 labelled 3,4,5-DESMETHYL into L. williamsii led to biosynthesis of mescaline whereas injection of C14 DMPEA gave a higher yield, suggesting dopamine might be an intermediate, giving rise to DMPEA through O-Methylation (Paul et al 1969). Radiolabeled dopamine was 3-O-methylated to give GEA in Trichocereus pachanoi, which lead to both DMPEA and mescaline (Lundström 1970a).

Metabolism of mescaline and DMPEA were compared in eight human subjects (Friedhoff and Hollister 1966). Metabolism of DMPEA in rats produced 3,4-dimethoxy-phenylacetic acid (77%), N-acetyl-DMPEA, dimethoxy and 4-demethylated phenylethanols and there was also 4-demethylation (as N-Acetylamine and the glucoronide) (Schweitzer and Friedhoff, 1966). In humans, with parenterally administered radiolabeled DMPEA, 75% excreted as 3,4-dimethoxyphenylacetic acid and 20% was excreted unchanged (Hempel et al 1982)

DMPEA was a common substrate for both types of MAO (Suzuki et al 1980)
Serotonin receptor site affinity was determined Glennon et al 1980a)

In human subjects, DMPEA shows NO activity at oral doses that are active for mescaline. This is ascribed to its relative complete conversion to an acid by oxidative deamination. Acute oral administration of 550mg produced no psychedelic effects, nor did the consumption of 900mg over the course of seven days (Shulgin et al 1966). Active oral dose is certainly greater than 1000mg, duration unknown (Shulgin and Shulgin 1991).

DMPEA, as well as its analogues, are NOT scheduled compounds under federal USA drug law or under District of Columbia or any state laws (Shulgin 2011)




Notice the methoxy groups can be in different positions, so DMPEA can be one of several isomers, though usually it reffers to 3,4-DMPEA, which AFAIK is the only one found naturally occuring so far. Some isomers example:



2,3-DMPEA

http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/C/pk448.png

CAS (3166-89-0 HCl salt, 64610-31-7 Sulfate, 3213-29-4 Freebase)
M/Z 181.1103
Freebase bp 138c/8mm (buck, 1932)

Synthesis, TLC, GC, UV and other properties (Ono et al 1976)
C-NMR spectra (Bailew and Legault 1983)
Mass Spectra of this and other 54 phenetylamines (Kolliker and Oehme 2004)
Effect on rat brain enzymes (Clark et al 1956)
Effect of ring methoxy groups on oxidative deamination (Clark et al 1965)

Human activity unknown (shulgin 2011)

Effect of ring methoxy groups on oxidative deamination (Clark et al 1965)



2,4-DMPEA



CAS (2039-55-6 HCl salt, 64610-32-8 Bisulfate, 15806-29-8 Freebase)
M/Z 181.1103
Freebase bp 140c/1mm Hg (Kondo et al 192Cool or 100-110c (Weinstock 1987)

Synthesis, TLC, GC, UV and other properties (Ono et al 1976)
C-NMR spectra (Bailew and Legault 1983)
Mass Spectra of this and other 54 phenetylamines (Kolliker and Oehme 2004)
Binding to 5HT1c and 5HT2 receptors studied (Glennon et al 1992)
Effect of ring methoxy groups on oxidative deamination (Clark et al 1965)

2,6-DMPEA



M/Z 181.1103

Synthesis, TLC, GC, UV and other properties (Ono et al 1976)
C-NMR spectra (Bailew and Legault 1983)
Mass Spectra of this and other 54 phenetylamines (Kolliker and Oehme 2004)
Binding to 5HT1c and 5HT2 receptors studied (Glennon et al 1992)
Effect of ring methoxy groups on oxidative deamination (Clark et al 1965)


3,5-DMPEA

 
Zuckerwasser
#7 Posted : 11/17/2013 7:19:22 PM
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Thanks for this high quality post. This is far off my range of knowledge.

As what zonk told me in a private message, i want to show the comparison of the assays by shulgin and b zonk:
by Shulgin the highest oral consumption without maoi was 1g, iv. it was 10mg.
Zonk used 2g with maoi, so thats why zonk got good result.
Thats the last thing i can contribute, when the discussion goes to such a high level. Maybe it helps. Im looking forward to people doing science about this substance.
 
endlessness
#8 Posted : 11/17/2013 8:17:17 PM

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Hey!

Hope I didnt scare you or anybody away, I just summed up what I could find of published information about this substance, mostly coming from Shulgin Index.

A few things that have called my attention about the info I posted above:

Mixed data on whether DMPEA is a naturally occurring human endogenous compound or not.

Appears to be a precursor of mescaline (giving DMPEA to cactus = more mescaline? )

Is not active without a MAOI (with MAOI, the report you posted seems to show it`s active).

I wonder how safe it is, and wonder what kind of metabolites form when taking it together with MAOI.
 
 
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