First of all, happy Saturday, and LVX


Just as a disclaimer,I have no experiential knowledge of ceremonial majick, merely academic. This thread us meant for those with an interest in Goetic, ceremonial, or Solomonic magick. It would be too difficult to give a crash course in legend and practice involving the 72 goetic spirits, it demons, and this thread us also not intended as a discussion regarding religion or morality. Also this thread is not a place to discuss legitimacy or existence of these things, again, merely academic, y'all?


I was talking with a friend this morning who is developing an interest in using aya as a goetic invocation tool. He said he had been having some success invoking at last one goetic spirit (dunno who) sober, but said it was scary.

According to him, when one invokes, whether the spirit is evil, good, or ambivalent, they get pissed and therefore even the good ones f++k with you, with "three wishes" wishes-style unwinnable logic, often leaving the invoker in much worse condition than at the outset. (this is my reason to remain academic regarding goetia!)

On the other hand, when one enters THEIR space, instead of screaming "barbarous names" and pulling some poor extra dimensional creature onto a two dimensional structure (circle and triangle) thereby creating a sort of "dimensional prison", the spirits react MUCH better, doing their little elf dances for us and touching or hearts with divine knowledge.

Why do the elves rejoice when we visit them?

I understand, or at least think I do, that there is a sort of hierarchy of spirits, that there are personal ones, or tulpas in Tibetan thought, thought strictures; there are the spirits of the earth,i.e elementals" and then the higher supernal, etheric beings, or angels. (I'm using language that is culturally relevant to me as an American of w. European descent, but have a mental pantheon from across human experience, so try to apply these concepts to your understanding to avoid as little semantic confusion as possible if I'm unclear), so who orwhere are they in DMT space, or the shamanic traditions?

Have you come across "named" entities,ala goetic spirits? What was their attitude/reaction?

I think goetia is dealing with elementals and the thought-structure entities, while hyperspace allows us to interact across the dimensional realm.

The bottom line is,I think, that when we let then take US, ie a mute submissive and respectful approach, they are much more liable to allow us access, even across the 'abyss' on the kabbalistic tree without having to suffer physical death, but when we force them to bend to our will, they only do so by masterful coercion, and are more likely to cause damage.
Can we become the New Majicians, combining the shamanic tradition with the esoteric and therefore arriving at the same place (shaman-,hyper-, or trance- space) but through a different route, instead that of the conqueror, but of the seeker and guest and be more efficient at the things the divine magicians through the ages have done, fulfilling the potential of such work?

Or am I just being incredibly egoistic and delusional?

Hmmm, what do you think.

Dammit, the hyper second between the thought and action wasn't long enough to prevent me from hitting post as I realized "hey man, this doesn't belong on DMT D, but rather Spirituality.

I'm ston-ED, please move, kind mod.


I know I know..

I feel that the Kabballah is very misunderstood. Yes, there is an element of "magic" to it, but I don't personally feel that this is the focus of most of the material. The majority of the material is, in my opinion based on my own spiritual learning and practices, how do I bond to God through regular life? Every action can be raised to extremely lofty hights, but how to do this is not obvious. The books themselves tell lots of different ways to bond - the sections about spirits and entities and angels and how to interact with them are one avenue. There are other avenues as well. Some focus on creative forces, to make either spiritual or real things. Others focus on kindness. Still others focus on reflection and meditation to find God within yourself.

Speaking specifically on the subject of entity contact in the Jewish mystical tradition, the existence of "evil" or "damaging" spirits has numerous sources. Protection must be taken against them, which can be achieved in a variety of ways. There are also "good" or "protecting" entities that are assigned to help you out. This is very similar to many DMT user's experiences of protective or destructive entities or forces when entering hyperspace. I have experienced something like entity contact outside of hyperspace, and it was rattling. Whether or not the experience was "real" - meaning, whether there actually was an entity that I felt was threatening me or if I was just freaked out for no reason - it had a profound effect on me. I imagine this is similar to the experience that your friend had.