We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
Understanding solubility Options
 
dmtmd
#1 Posted : 5/23/2013 4:36:22 AM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 39
Joined: 01-May-2013
Last visit: 22-Apr-2023
Hey everyone i have a general chemistry knowledge but im having trouble with one concept. Why arent all nonpolar compounds soluble in a single nonpolar solvent?

For example lets say you have a nonpolar compound and you have 2 nonpolar solvants A and B. and its only soluble in A. What determines this selective solubility, why can a dissolve it and b cannot. It would be nice if everything in the known universe was soluble in soapy water lol.

My question also applies to polar compounds.
All my post are theoretical and if i refer to myself in terms like me or I, i am actually referring to a theoretical entity name me or I.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
cyb
#2 Posted : 5/23/2013 9:57:09 AM

DMT-Nexus member

Moderator | Skills: Digi-Art, DTP, Optical tester, Mechanic, CarpenterSenior Member | Skills: Digi-Art, DTP, Optical tester, Mechanic, Carpenter

Posts: 3574
Joined: 18-Apr-2012
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024

From Here:


ChemisTryptaMan wrote:
Solubility:

Solubility is the extent to which a solute(anything being dissolved) can dissolve in a particular volume of solvent(the liquid holding the solutes). In a chemistry classroom what they will tell you is that "likes dissolve likes". This refers to the polarities of the molecules that one is attempting to dissolve. In general, non-polar molecules will dissolve in non-polar solvents(oils) and polar molecules will dissolve in polar solvents(water). This is why oil and water don't mix. The molecules of each are not soluble in each other, so they wont mix. The term miscibility is usually used for liquid-liquid situations, like ethanol being completely miscible with water means that they can be mixed in any proportion and it will form a homogeneous mixture. The truth of the matter is that oil and water do mix, just in such small amounts that we cant see it. As far as extraction goes, this means that there is some amount of naphtha in the water, and some amount of water in the naphtha. This is because at low ionic strengths(more on this later) most of the water molecules are neutral and do not repel the non-polar molecules as strongly as strongly as a fully charged ion in solution. Spice can exist in different forms that have different solubility in both water and naphtha. Solubility in both will increase at higher temperatures, as this is the case with most solutes and solvents. Higher temperatures mean higher solubility.


ChemisTryptaMan wrote:
Partition Coefficients:

Partition Coefficients are a measure of how a solute will behave in a biphasic(2 layered) liquid system. These have values that are given in terms of the concentration in the non polar layer divided by the concentration in the aqueous layer. The standard solvent system which most literature values is given are for an octanol:water system. The goal when performing these extractions is to get the highest Partition Coefficient for the DMT so that most of it will end up in the non-polar layer(naphtha). This process of finding the optimum PC is different for every solute in every solvent system. We are mostly working with freebase DMT in a Naphtha: water system. We do this by attempting to decrease the solubility in the water layer while increasing the solubility in the naphtha layer. How can we do this? Well heating the entire solution will increase the solubility in both layers, to different extents, but the bottom line here is that you want the bottom layer to be cool when your pulling the spice from it, so if your going to use temperature your best option is to heat the naphtha before adding it to the cool(room temp) water and mixing as much as possible before the temperature equilibrate(which happens within seconds). There is another way to achieve our goal though, and that is by increasing the ionic strength of our aqueous layer in order to decrease the solubility of the spice in the aqueous layer. This also has the added benefit of decreasing the solubility of the water within the naphtha and the naphtha in the water, which is why adding salt results in less emulsions forming at higher ionic strengths, a more complete separation of the two layers is achieved.
Please do not PM tek related questions
Reserve the right to change your mind at any given moment.
 
Mindlusion
#3 Posted : 5/29/2013 11:24:19 PM

Chairman of the Celestial Divison

Extreme Chemical expertChemical expertSenior Member

Posts: 1393
Joined: 21-Jul-2010
Last visit: 11-Aug-2024
Location: the ancient cluster
While those blocks of text look appealing, neither of them really answer his question.

---

Though, it can be simply explained again, with 'like dissolves like'
Not only does this mean that non-polar dissolves non-polar, polar dissolves polar, etc.

It can also be applied if you consider the structures of the solvent and solute in question.

Bring yourself down to the molecular level. The big factor here is electron density. Is there a dipole? Where are those electrons, are they resonant stabilized? Fully saturated?


You'll find that most non-polars will be soluble in a non-polar solvent to some degree, even if its negligible, their solubility will be more apparent at highly increased temperatures.
But i'd like to help you further. Which non-polar solute and solvent were you wondering about? The selectivity of a solvent is often dependent on temperature.



But, lets use DMT as an example, since its fitting.

This the best way I could think of to explain this, i've left out some things, bear with me.

Like dissolves like. Most people use naphtha for extracting freebase DMT, its a mixture of aliphatic hydrocarbons, like heptane and hexane. These are basically fully saturated chains of carbon. Quite non-polar. DMT doesn't really have a great affinity to these aliphatics, because its composed of an aromatic ring, (Indole) giving it a small dipole. (as well as the amine) But, this is actually useful since it allows us to use temperature to our advantage. I.E. Freeze precipitate.

Now, lets take toluene, or benzene, as an example solvent. These aromatic rings are resonant stablized, they are indeed non-polar, but not as much as the fully saturated hydrocarbon, they are de-localized in the aromatic. They have electron densities that are more 'like' that of the freebase DMT molecule.
So it has higher affinity.

This doesn't necessarily make it a better solvent, the best solvent depends on what you want to use it for. If you wanted to freeze precipitate, an aromatic isn't the best choice.
If you wanted to salt out the fumarates, the better solvent would be the aromatic.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.016 seconds.