Hey ive always been facinated by Terrence's timewave theory, and one of the things he talked about the most was what would happen at the end of time/the end of the timewave, and how we would be thrusted into infinite novelty/singularity. Now since seems that didnt happen do you you guys think this theory still have validity? whats your thoughts on it?

I can't say I ever thought many of his theories were valid, but they were entertaining.

I never could take him seriously, but he has made me smile.

i think the predicted end of the Timewave came and went several times and Terrence just kept putting it back.

never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

what do u mean by this, can u please elaborate?

thanks

Just because it didn't occur on dec 21 2012 doesn't mean that it won't ever happen. Because of the fact that things are getting more complex at an increasing rate curve, eventually that curve will reach a slope of 'undefined' or a vertical line. Therefor the level of novelty would be infinite and we would possibly transcend into the fourth dimension.

Or something completely unlike that. Predicting that far into the future is pretty much impossible.

His timewave 0 graph did end on the same date as the Mayan's calendar, and they weren't predicting the end were they? I think they both just accurately predicted the coming of the new era of awareness.

Disclaimer-I am huge T.M. fan. I love his writings and works. In fact he is on my top 3 list of people I could bring back to life.
That said I never took his Timwwavezero ideas too seriously. Also...its not a theory by definition people its more of a hypothesis.

Hypothesis-a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation

As far as the above post stating that just because it hasnt happened on the time it was predicted doesnt mean it never will.

Well, yes thats certainly true but holds no water when you think about it practicaly. If your using an infinite amount of time for this to occur it eventually will, if possible but that does not mean he predicted it...its just statistical happenstance.

I love the man, but I always keep in mind how far he pushed his already off the charts intelligent mind especially in the Amazon with Dennis. Just as when we are in altered states by these substances, connections and correlations pop in our face that seem so obvious and certain only to fade as we come down. I think T.Ms brain didnt really fully come down. This was his greatest gift IMO. It allowed his daily mind to work in ways that ours can only in shorter duration.

Timwewave zero is brilliant and eleoquent but without out a shred of real evidence to support the hypothesis. Trust me I wish he was correct but never felt he nailed it on this oneor others. Remember the Logos.

Now his ideas on society and novelty I do feel he is onto something tangible. But because the I Ching or whatever lines up with events in history...well mate thats a pretty weak ass piece of supporting evidence. Whats about all the huge historical events that didnt line up? He was more or less reverse engineering but it was fun to think about and I love him just the same.

I love Terrence, but timewave O is a fanciful theory he conjured up while tripping balls for days.

Terrence certainly was an intellectual, but if you ever have heard how and when he came up with the theory you'd question it as well, him and his brother Dennis where on very high doses of shrooms for days when he conceptualized it. In an interview with Dennis, he all but discredits the theory as just that, a well crafted theory. He came up with the 2012 date much later and said he didn't know about the mayan calender and that it was a coincidence... Terrence was probably one the most well read people alive, there is NO way he didn't know about that. And his brother pretty much called BS on that, and he was the one closest to him in the creation of the timewave 0 theory. Plus, Terrence thought the point zero would happen on several dates and events and when they passeed he came up with new ones. He was a brilliant man, no doubt, but a story teller and philosopher none the less.

You can find the interview with Dennis on Youtube.. called Psychedelics and the Timewave with Dennis McKenna... it's in three parts

PS couldn't have said it any better Olympus.. glad there are those much more articulate than mua

really awesome responses I love and always will love Terence anyways, he really was one of the greatest men of our time, and I learned so much from him and he inspired me in so many ways. Need to realize he is only human(well sort of ) and we all sometime or another think we have something completely figured out when we dont, I at one time on an intense shroom trip thought i was bombarded with the knowledge that i am the messiah and actually believed it at the time hehe, and yes olympus i think he never really did come fully come down and thats part of what made him great. There were indeed holes in the theory and his brother realized this and explained how its not an actual theory, but who knows it might happen one day just that 2012 date not correct. Things in life usually never turn out as planned,and i am certain we live in a world of magic and things are getting better, more complex and synchronized as time goes by

Rip to both him and his timeline, love(d) him and his stories.

In regards to the singularity, it is not just his theory. Moore's law is a timeline that has been holding true so far and it points to a singularity sometime around 2025 technically. Its completely based on the fact that technology grows exponentially due to using said technology to create the new ones.

Unless we blow ourselves up or something happens to hinder our progess I do completely believe it to be possible.

Anyone who is interested in this should check the documentary Transcendant Man by Ray Kurzweil. The documentary ends up focusing a lot on Raymond himself and his life experience/thoughts/fears but has lots of information regarding the possibility of a singularity.

Edit: I believe moores law is mostly in regards to electronics but supposedly can be used roughly since the invention of the wheel in some arbitrary way. Still interesting imo.

Joe Rogan recently had a podcast with Terence's brother where they discussed the timewave zero theory among many other things that Terence did. He explains how terence tried many different starting points for the model before adopting the Mayan 2012 calender end date as the end date to the timewave model. It's actually pretty interesting since Dennis doesn't seem to be much of a supporter of Terence's most extreme ideas and actually gives some background into how the theories developed.

Here's the interview... (a forewarning, Joe has a 5-10 minute introduction/infomercial deal)
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/27786498

Joe Rogan.......

exactly , i think TM was just having fun

sorry i was a bit brief but *oneironaut*'s answer sums it up.

i love Terrence and he would be right between Jimi and Janis at my fantasy dinner table but he was most definitely off his pickle, in the nicest possible way.

I like Joe Rogan...always have. He is mis informed about dmt and the pineal gland thats for sure and should stop spreading misinformation. He could do some reading up but dmt aside...the man is quite intelligent and I like his podcasts show.

Ive had a brief conversation with him a few years back after one of his stand up shows. His outlook on the absurdity of fame and society was refreshing. He really seems to be down to earth and has done the work with other traditional entheogens as well.

Besides the topic of dmt if you listen to his show and the quality guests he has on you may be surprised.

i agree with your view OM, Joe seems to get a lot of flack and i always feel its a little unfair, i think he just got over excited about DMT but to be fair who didnt? it just happens that lots of people get to hear what he says.

I have recently started plowing through his podcasts and i think lots of them are really good. A few favourites ive seen so far are Maynard talking about wine, Cara Santa Maria talking science, D McKenna and Jason Silva who seems to remember everything everyone has ever said or written or thought, ever.

As much as I like TMK, I think 2012 it was his way of taking the piss.

Sometimes I wonder if he's a member.

i feel like he would be better informed if that were the case

Don't get me wrong, he has very high entertainment value and props to him for trying to bring dmt to the mainstream. But you gotta admit the guy is allover the place from fear factor, flesh light, MMA, and psychedelics proponent to boot. Most of his wrap is a mirror of McKenna's and his aya journey in the amazon. He really does't bring much new to the table....so authority on dmt? Nope. Entertainer..hell yes. I would launch with the dude any day!

And Joe, if u read this, my door and vaporizer is always open and if u are so inclined, bring me a case of fleshlights and box seat tickets to the next UFC fights in Vegas!

this is the funniest thing i read all day