 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 314 Joined: 31-Jan-2012 Last visit: 04-Feb-2017
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I recently took a position at a school in which I am assigned to a middle-school student. The student has been identified as gifted, but he has shown disturbing behaviors, such as a lack of conscience, violent tendencies, and deviance. He is indeed smart, but he is not necessarily smarter than I am. I would wager that he isn't, and I know it's not a competition, but the biggest behavioral issue that I have identified is this: he thinks he is right about everything. I have encountered a spectrum of students, but this kid is particularly troubling. I really have no idea how to deal with this child, and as a matter of fact, no one at the school knows either, which is why they hired additional staff. I'm fishing for some constructive advice, because I care, but I fear that this child is going to be outplaced very shortly. "Culture is NOT your friend" - TMK
Dead-Yolk-Mau5 - Yolks N' Stuff ( 2008 )
The year is 01 ADMT
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 177 Joined: 14-Apr-2011 Last visit: 22-Jul-2016
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How often do you interact with this kid? Are you in a classroom with him or do you have private sessions with him? Are you a teaching assistant or a counselor or? Are there chances that he is being abused at home?
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 314 Joined: 31-Jan-2012 Last visit: 04-Feb-2017
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I am an employee of the school district, and my official title is a substitute TA. However, I am working in a one-to-one capacity with this student, and I accompany him everywhere during the school day, whether that be in the classroom or elsewhere. He is not being abused at home, but his parents are the worst sort of enablers. Imagine if you met someone who, when asked, "what's up?" would reply, "the sky," but that that was how he responded to everything you ever asked him, without exception. "Culture is NOT your friend" - TMK
Dead-Yolk-Mau5 - Yolks N' Stuff ( 2008 )
The year is 01 ADMT
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 314 Joined: 31-Jan-2012 Last visit: 04-Feb-2017
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mike74747 wrote:Patience and compassion, you can be tough without being mean. Kindness leads to kindness. This is my default approach, but I am concerned that this child is genuinely troubled to the point that he does not reciprocate compassion or kindness. He is also manipulative. Again, in my vain attempts to find out what makes him tick, I have considered that nothing makes him tick, which is the worst-case scenario. "Culture is NOT your friend" - TMK
Dead-Yolk-Mau5 - Yolks N' Stuff ( 2008 )
The year is 01 ADMT
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 177 Joined: 14-Apr-2011 Last visit: 22-Jul-2016
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Does he have any friends? If not, is it possible all these things are defense mechanisms he uses to rationalize to himself why he doesnt have friends? (Im smarter than everyone and always right, I dont want to be friends with those stupid people etc)
How long have you been interacting with him? Im not an expert, but I think the best method is to just try and get to know him to where he feels comfortable around you and can view you as a friend. Does he have any hobbies you can get into with him?
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 498 Joined: 21-Oct-2009 Last visit: 31-Mar-2023
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a taste of his own medicine so he can see his own actions consequences from the receiving perspective? probably bad advice
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 151 Joined: 30-Nov-2012 Last visit: 19-Dec-2012
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With these kinds of kids you can't come at them like an authority figure. They've dealt with that fake personality enough with the rest of the failed staff that you mentioned, and he's probably unaffected by that approach by now. You gotta get on his good side and then be suggestive instead of demanding. Most of the time these kids are dealing with a lack of love and lack of nurturing so having someone he can confide in may help influence him more positively than other wise. Since he's a know-it-all, try to put him in situations as much as possible where he'll be confused and let him fail until he ASKS for help. If that doesn't work than... 
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 314 Joined: 31-Jan-2012 Last visit: 04-Feb-2017
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emptymind wrote:Does he have any friends? If not, is it possible all these things are defense mechanisms he uses to rationalize to himself why he doesnt have friends? (Im smarter than everyone and always right, I dont want to be friends with those stupid people etc)
How long have you been interacting with him? Im not an expert, but I think the best method is to just try and get to know him to where he feels comfortable around you and can view you as a friend. Does he have any hobbies you can get into with him?
He apparently has one friend, but more enemies. Nobody would really want to be his friend, I can assure you of this. I've only known him eight days, which isn't much, but greater men than I have tried and failed. Apparently, his behavior has not changed since he entered the school system, and he is now in fifth grade. The counselor anticipates that he will be pulled in the next month. I am essentially a last ditch attempt. It might seem unfair to say, but he is genuinely not a nice person. If he doesn't want to do something, he just doesn't do it. And he walks all over the other adults. He has exemptions from certain rules, which is not helping anything. Again, if he is truly sociopathic, there isn't much that can be done. "Culture is NOT your friend" - TMK
Dead-Yolk-Mau5 - Yolks N' Stuff ( 2008 )
The year is 01 ADMT
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 151 Joined: 30-Nov-2012 Last visit: 19-Dec-2012
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damn, how do they expect you to do a complete turn around with this kid in less than a month? especially, him being so young as well, it's not like you can just reason with him. you should talk to the counselor and ask to get more time before they just let him go and get institutionalized. he's probably got some deep seated family issues that would take months if not a year to work through. he needs a constant trusty adult to warm up to for a good while before he can be reasoned with and start changing his behavior and attitude. more force is going to do nothing besides strengthen this kids manipulative skills and general negative attitude.
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 135 Joined: 14-Oct-2012 Last visit: 03-Jul-2020
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Does he know he's about to get pulled out of the school? If not can you level with him? You'd probably need to get the counselor's permission.
Maybe fear of consequences would straighten him out?
Otherwise yeah, not much can be done if he's truly a sociopath.
That said, I've often wondered if empathogens could help socio/psychopathic individuals. Empathy seems to be a big hurdle when it comes to getting through to them.
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 Chairman of the Celestial Divison
  
Posts: 1393 Joined: 21-Jul-2010 Last visit: 11-Aug-2024 Location: the ancient cluster
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He just sounds a bit egocentric, I blame the parents. They probably treat him like a god. Have you met his parents? Expect nothing, Receive everything. "Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). " He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita "The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
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 John Murdoch IV
Posts: 2038 Joined: 18-Jan-2008 Last visit: 06-Aug-2025 Location: Changes from time to time.
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Well he doesn't sound happy. Something's bothering this person I think. I think you should try to find out what. โโโโโโ
DMTripper is a fictional character therefore everything he says here must be fiction. I mean, who really believes there is such a place as Hyperspace!!
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 151 Joined: 30-Nov-2012 Last visit: 19-Dec-2012
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Mindlusion wrote:He just sounds a bit egocentric, I blame the parents. They probably treat him like a god.
Have you met his parents? actually most of the time it's the opposite. children who are treated like sh*t at home become utterly egocentric bullies while at school. why? b/c they get no attention at home so they're over-excessive with attention demands while at school. they also are mirroring the abuse they receive at home by giving it out at school to kids and teachers. the kids who are spoiled at home tend to be very obedient in school, cuz they don't need the attention they already get enough of it, they also really don't understand the concept of standing out of line b/c they're so used to staying in line to get what they want.
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 314 Joined: 31-Jan-2012 Last visit: 04-Feb-2017
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haeratic wrote:damn, how do they expect you to do a complete turn around with this kid in less than a month? especially, him being so young as well, it's not like you can just reason with him. you should talk to the counselor and ask to get more time before they just let him go and get institutionalized. he's probably got some deep seated family issues that would take months if not a year to work through. he needs a constant trusty adult to warm up to for a good while before he can be reasoned with and start changing his behavior and attitude. I honestly don't know if they have that expectation. I might just be tiding him over until that happens. Speaking of talking to the counselor, what are cues that a married woman is hitting on you? But back to the student--I feel like I have far too little control of the situation to make a difference. I can't do anything about his parents, unfortunately. And this might seem a tad crazy--not crazier than DMT--but I'm only being rational, and not literal but: I think this kid could really benefit from physical intimidation. Obviously that's a no-go, but rationally, it makes sense. This kid is playing mind games with us, and he is very aware of the fact that we can't really lay a finger on him. Psychologically, this puts him in a position of power, which is the last things that he needs. I think physical intimidation is actually healthy, to a degree, but it's simply out of the question. Edit: and maybe DMT could help him, but again that's out of the question. Sigh. "Culture is NOT your friend" - TMK
Dead-Yolk-Mau5 - Yolks N' Stuff ( 2008 )
The year is 01 ADMT
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 151 Joined: 30-Nov-2012 Last visit: 19-Dec-2012
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you just cannot give in. don't be physical about it though... just always be a step ahead of him mentally and block him off before he can play his games. when he starts going into a manipulative excuse cut him off and make sure he understands that you're not gonna have that. once you've cut him off enough mentally and you start wearing him down, then start being suggestive about how he should act. show him that it's better to be honest b/c then others feel more comfortable around him and he'll start making more friends. but again, you gotta be there for this kid. you can't create the divide between you and him like all those other teachers did before you with that whole fake authority intimidation BS. I'm willing to bet he get's a lot more intimidation and authority at home then you'd ever be able to dish out to him at school, you're nothing but a joker in his eyes. you gotta get cool with this kid and figure out what makes him tick and then, only then, can you start adjusting his clock. edit: that last sentence could sound like a nasty pun, but only if you took that teacher job to get some extra curricular activity
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 177 Joined: 14-Apr-2011 Last visit: 22-Jul-2016
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Get him into brazilian jiu jitsu.
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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emptymind wrote:Get him into brazilian jiu jitsu. ^ or a strict traditional okinawan martial art (but bjj is easier to find - tho costly) My wind instrument is the bong CHANGA IN THE BONGA! ๆจน
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 151 Joined: 30-Nov-2012 Last visit: 19-Dec-2012
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he could definitely gain a lot of humility and discipline if enrolled in a martial art. at the same time, he could get turned off and opt out after a few classes.
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 DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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haeratic wrote:he could definitely gain a lot of humility and discipline if enrolled in a martial art. at the same time, he could get turned off and opt out after a few classes. i think the idea of violence and gaining control over it is appealing to trouble makers (again, why i like okinawan, as the first few years of training are difficult to integrate into a real fight, and when you are advanced enough to learn techniques that aren't, you will be disciplined). which is more likely than not the reason discipline is so deeply ingrained into traditional martial art forms. but yes, there is always the chance he will opt out. My wind instrument is the bong CHANGA IN THE BONGA! ๆจน
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 LUVR
Posts: 1331 Joined: 24-Aug-2010 Last visit: 17-Jan-2024 Location: Thither
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I also like the idea of mentally putting him in place. Throw some riddles or something at him that he won't solve and make him ask for help, if he thinks he is ultra smart he is going to have problems with authority and fitting in. I don't know but it seems like showing him that you are smarter than him and he can actually learn from others would be easy and harmless as a first step. Good luck, kids are ruthless. 'Little spider weaves a wispy web, stumblin' through the woods it catches to my head. She crawls behind my ear and whispers secrets. Dragonfly whiz by and sings now teach it.'
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