I'm noticing a lot of music/art that seems to be heavily influenced by DMT. Now I could be wrong/high but I remember when DMT wasn't so ubiquitous. To me, it seems since the advent of the Internet and forums etc. DMT has obviously been on the rise, especially as of late.

So my question is, do you think DMT will have an impact on a large scale like LSD did on our culture? I really believe DMT can. What are your thoughts? I see a future with very DMT like technology ie augmented reality, virtual reality. DMT might be preparing us for a future reality that is increasingly becoming more digital, visual etc.

Terrence talks about a need for humans to break beyond the language barrier, transcend syntax. Switching from an auditory modality to a visual one. I've experienced this visual language on DMT.

Obviously we cant always be on DMT. That's why I believe technology is going to play a huge role in the next step in the evolution of language.

Imagine the engineers that are working on these technologies right now smoking DMT. Im sure some of them are. I can see DMT helping these minds see new ways of building/designing technology. I dont believe we've seen what DMT can do to the masses because for so long it was extremely hard to find. That's changing. Look what happened when engineers in silicon valley started taking LSD. Music, movies, fashion etc. Its hard to imagine this world without the influence of LSD/Mushrooms.

I believe as Ayahuasca and DMT become more ubiquitous we will see some pretty startling effects on culture.

[]Deace

A lot of what is happening in modern culture, from music to film to art to technology and beyond, has some crossover into psychedelic culture. Creative people like to open their minds. I'm sure there is plenty of LSD and mushroom use in all these subcultures too, not just DMT.

The thing is, human creative endeavors are indeed becoming more advanced. It's possible to express more content of meaning, more directly, now than yesterday, because our overall understanding of the world-and of the mind- has become more advanced. It's natural to equate that evolution to DMT, since it feels so much more sophisticated than other psychedelics.

The thing about acid and shrooms is that you can actually do stuff on these substances: draw, paint, play guitar, program computers, decode the DNA molecule, etc. DMT is not really a substance you do stuff on, in that same sense. So its connection to actual creativity will always be more indirect than with the conventional psychedelics: you have your experience, you struggle to hold on to the thinnest representation of some salient nugget, then you make art about it if you can. You can go much deeper, but DMT doesn't really provide an altered creative state- even Aya is a bit too strong and too short to have a meaningful jam session with your band.

If anything, I think that DMT can provide an occasional quantum leap of understanding that can be put to good use. Most of us, though, are just too primitive to do much with it except to help find peace and understanding in our personal lives.

Meanwhile, sacred visionary art continues to evolve as an art movement. Much of this work is inspired by psychedelics, including DMT... But like with anything else, a lot of its evolution is owed to the decades of practice and experimentation in the movement. The popularization of DMT in recent years has no doubt had some impact on this process, but I think it's just a part of a much larger picture.

Wow dude, I can see where your coming from with that.

Interesting thoughts....

I'd say - depends... on who wins the internet / information wars....

If censorship / big brother wins, then you'll probably see sites like this vanish.
It's stay alive in a small underground community, but off the grid.

If freedom wins, then it depends on how many are willing to try.
Seems that the spice experience leads to a new world view,
one not compatible with war or exploitation of other humans...
Perhaps not everyone wants to know the truth...?

As in the Matrix "Ignorance is bliss" - chose cypher...

If word gets out and there is a spice or aya "woodstock",
it will probably change everything.

Bound to happen one day, they ain't getting this genie back in it's bottle...

Personally I retain quite a bit from DMT. I'm not talking about when someone is under the influence actively creating something.....I'm talking about people having Eureka moments...revelations under the influence. Engineers are in the business of solving problems...true? I can see DMT (LSD has already proven it can) helping to see things in a new light. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[]Deace

Yeah, of course, psychedelics are a catalyst for creativity... What's new? Creativity though, is not inherently good. Advertisers/marketers are some of the most creative guys up there with your favorite artists, and what more that they manipulate the viewers subconscious impulses. Creativity made possible fossil fuel extraction, the atomic bomb, globalization, and the rest of Eco-destructive technology. Of course, it also made possible some of our favorite art, music, movies, & personal technology. So what's the pay off? You see, creativity and it's products can be in both positive and negative light.

As far as Terrence McKenna talking about humans breaking the language barrier, that's in the futurist/technocratic sense. I mean we already break the "language barrier" with body language and visual ques. So what he's getting at is the point where technology allows telepathy. He's certainly not the first to posit this though. He actually takes off where Marshall McLuhan left off on the idea of a global mind created by the advance of technology leading to constant HUMAN telepathy. A world where every HUMAN would know each others thoughts simultaneously. But what about the rest of the living world if we are apart of it? Both guys were humanists though, so their ideas only really matter to mans advance not including environment. So for HUMAN society we'd have a world with no secrets promoted by the real secret of technological control, no holds barred where everyone is barred by the collective, ego disillusionment towards the humanist ego of ecocide, creative collective or complacent collective, who knows?

It's this techno-trippy-hippy optimism or delusion that if everyone was one brain no one would act out of self interest rather as an altruistic collective utopia. But how can you be altruistic if there is no one besides yourself as everyone else. The line between optimism and delusion becomes blurry and we enter objectivism territory. This is where many critics point at New Age ideals of collective consciousness as rather egotistical and nihilistic. "It's not me who will die, it's the world that will." - Ayn Rand

Funny how Ayn Rand was the single largest influence on Silicon Valley entrepreneurs. Most corporations in the valley are even named after Rand. But I digress, capitalism co-opted creativity a long long time ago, what do you expect?

I do not support these ideas, from either TM or MM. These guys (rest in peace) were futurists of the technocratic type. They are men of the 60s that believed that technology would set us free. Well lookey lookey, no sir indeed. Technology has furthered the destruction of the planet and separated community even farther. Studies show that technology is far from freeing and rather promotes ADD learning, anxiety, addiction, isolation, all while the surveillance state rises. Now imagine a future of being constantly plugged in, not like that's far off from how we are already. But in a constant virtual global brain where everyone can know what your thinking all the time in a fantasy replication of reality. Hello? Matrix anybody? I think this would create collective complacency before collective creativity towards freedom. If anything creativity would be in the confines of complacency.

It would lead to a very paranoid schizophrenic world where everyone is in check of themselves and their thoughts, not that we aren't already like that. I mean since the 70s self-potential movement people have been training when they killed off the activism of the 60s. They took the battle from the physical to the mental realm. There's a police man inside all our heads that needs to be destroyed!! Free yourself from revolting thoughts and go with the flow of non-violent complacent pacifist bliss! May I remind you that Buddhism's first propagators were city officials. Give up your free will, give up your reality, this world of suffering you experience isn't real, don't try to change it just mask it with closed eyes and bliss out, accept the collective consciousness of the corporate state. I can't see how anyone could support such a thing.

Complete and utter absurdity, if you ask me.

The most dangerous hands that technology could be in is the inverted totalitarian state of western society. I'd rather use psychedelics to re-mind & re-member myself to the natural/real world of gods creation instead of the nihilistic creative corporate complacent collective.

DMT is happening to our society in a slower way than the way LSD happened to our society.








Does one side win? This control vs freedom notion, I'm reminded of the Invisibles. By the end of the comic books run, the Invisible Army (freedom) and the Outer Church (control) began to become indistinguishable from each other. Leaving that aside and maintaining this free vs enslaved dichotomy intact, well, force begat resistance. What I mean to say is, it's a push-pull. When freedom gets bigger, the control clamps down. Dictators create anarchists, anarchists instigate tyranny.

So yeah, I hope that DMT, the way it slowly emerges into public consciousness....right at the same time that marijuana restrictions are starting to lighten up a bit, I hope that we are able to integrate this experience as a people, in a manner more dignified than the way we bugged out over acid. I know the clamp-down is already in full effect. But DMT is ubiquiteous, and it always has been. How's that grass tek coming? With DMT being everywhere and with so many of us having either a sacred or scientific attitude, rather than merely hedonic, maybe this can be integrated in smoother fashion.

Well, at least the arts are well fed by the hyperspace experience. Not just music and paintings, but all creative endeavor can be enhanced by hyperspace.

I was thinking more along the lines of futurist jacques fresco. Obviously technology has had devastating consequences for our planet. We're also 7 billion people strong...it's going to take some thinking outside of the box to see us through this current crisis. I can see dmt being used as a tool for solving some of these problems. Just a thought

Psychedelics are deconditioning agents. So, yes, they do help us realize our dependency on certain power structures or matrices. I don't think though, that they will spark the creation of utopia that you seem to be searching for RayTracer. The idealists of the 60s already did that with the LSD movement to commune mass migration. Most communes only lasted a few years at best b/c they went into it with this utopian egalitarian mindset of freedom but were slapped in the face by the fact that sedentary groups inevitably become hierarchical. All it took was a strong personality in the majority of pacifistic psychedelic peoples to get it going. The delusional dash at utopia was short lived and created the jaded yuppies of the late 70s into the 80s. Hence the early hippie relations with the internet. When they couldn't have their utopia in nature they made a cybernetic idea of nature. They hoisted up technocrats like Bucky Fuller, Richard Dawkins, & McLuhan to champion this blindly. They didn't realize though that systems theory cannot be applied to a dynamic world. Eventually that same hand that slapped them in the 60s came around 360 and back handed them into our current capitalistic crash.

Back track. This cybernetic systems theory idea of stability made it all the way up to the federal reserve and the digital economy was born in the early 90s. It was their new hope of decentralized utopia after the disillusionment of nature and communes. But just like with the communes their initial excitement was fleeting. The 90s was a stage of irrational exuberance as the computers magically stabilized the market despite no real growth. They realized that this systems theory sentiment was in fact not decentralizing or egalitarian but rather simply shifting power to those who took the opportunity. This lead to the financial fiasco in SE Asia and the subsequent payback from China in the 2000s. Now were at ground zero with the financial collapse completely caused by cybernetic approaches to free market capitalism. The net didn't work just like the communes. Utopia was fumbled and lost twice by the same group of "free" thinkers on hippie hype.

So you see, utopia is a dangerous idea. No man's idea of utopia is the same as the next mans. Most utopias are fleeting fantasies, just as fast as they seem to work, they fail. But some are still bold as to give their vision in hopes of it merely becoming a fringe movement. This is exactly what Jacques Fresco and his Venus Project movement are. A resource based economy without money where technology is king. It's the mash up of both the hippie commune idealism with computer utopians. What a disgustingly delusional baby. It's communism but instead of money incentive he believes that people will work out of their own merit and morality. Everyone will believe in the cause so there would be no need for money. If the hippies could hardly do it, I doubt that we could get 7 billion people to. He also is a big supporter of the devilish three; Genetic, Nano, & Robotic technology. If you don't understand why the GNR are controversial than you've been living under a rock. There is way too much room for catastrophe and corruption in his civilization no matter how dressed up and sci-fi he makes it.

You should be looking to the examples of South American states if you want to see some sensibility w/o the idealism.

I very much have communal sensibilities. If you have 50 chickens in a coop, they figure out a pecking order and get by alright. it aint utopia, but at least they don't peck each other to death. You put one more chicken up in there and it's out of control. Large chicken facilities of course have to cut the beaks off. This is why I can't get into politics much. Communism, democracy, whatever, it all works great on a tribal scale...





One in a million was a great song. But it offended people with it's generally fearful attitude towards gays blacks and immigrants. That song, and Axles general rock star/primadonna attitude were why GNR was so controversial.


Back to the chickens. You can't do large scale agriculture without decimating our planet. You can't use the sort of energy and production and "growth" that we currently employ, without a gigantic host of problems. There is no free energy. There is no clean alternative to petrol. utopia? this aint the garden of eden.... And this aint the summer of love. But the fact that the failure of idealism in the 1970's does not justify an utter rejection of communal living. Communal living has been the way of life for what a hundred thousand years, here on planet earth. That's where I live. It's where I keep all my stuff.

I am hoping for some kind of technology that enhances endogenous DMT and ultimately enhances the human experience when everyone feels like he's on a non-breakthrough dose of DMT , breaking through at night alone in bed..

Dear Doodazzle,

I agree with your point that there is always a pecking order not some delusional egalitarian utopia in sedentary communal tribes, but with nomadic peoples this isn't necessarily the case. I also agree that primitive society is the most beneficial to people on a personal level, I would best describe myself as a primitivist! Applying communism to entire countries or continents though is NOT the way to go. It's been done and failed before many a time, and even China's current communism is a mask for corporate capitalism. Yes, it can work with 150 people or under in tribal society, but not on a mass scale like Jacques Fresco wants it. Also, I don't believe we can just get everyone to turn over to a primitive lifestyle. That was the idealism of the 60s, that if everyone dropped acid they'd turn on, tune in, and DROP OUT! But it was really just a COP OUT from their earlier years of activism, but then again white people failed at activism from the start so whadya expect? Even the people that did drop out could hardly last for a few years before they came back as jaded creative corporate types.



WTF are you talking about? LMFAO. When I said GNR I wasn't talking about Guns n' Roses my friend. I was talking about (G)enetic, (N)ano, & (R)obotic technology. Why would I even bring up guns n roses in this discussion lmfao. Put down the pipe for a second homie. The GNR is the MOST controversial area of science today. Genetic engineering of food and animals, nano technology leading to cyber warfare, autonomous robots being used already in Afghanistan. Here's a good primer by Bill Joy (creator of Java) for this subject if you aren't already versed on the controversy: http://www.wired.com/wir...archive/8.04/joy_pr.html

Back to the communes, or as you like to compare; chickens! I'm not bashing communal living with small tribal groups brosef. I'm a primitivist myself. I am bashing communism on a large scale, it just doesn't work. Also, there is a clean alternative to petrol. If we turned the corn belt of america into the hemp belt we could supplement a LARGE portion of our energy needs. If we started leaving local municipalities with more independence and more resources they can start on community supported agriculture with permaculture and mass solar projects. As well as growing our own hemp we would turn turtle island aka america back into the great hemp country that it used to be. This stuff is already going on down in South America. So like I said before, don't apply idealistic commune situations to entire countries or drop out and stay in your little bubble commune yourself and then talk about what the best politics are.

GNR happens to be short for Guns n' Roses , i've actually heared nobody refer to anything else but the band when they shortterm GNR ... You can understand the confusion here. No need to be condescending

This was my original statement that he took guns and roses out of...



Hard not to be a wee bit condescending. I mean it was right in context. I think he just misread or was stoned... thats all

You guys are awesome. I did not misread, nor was I stoned. I threw guns and f'n roses into the mix just to make you laugh. clever guy sometime, me. I will take a toke about now, however.




The thing about clean fuel....fine, hemp. They failed with ethanol--it was gmo corn, and allegedly messed up the whole agri-scheme or something. failed with solar--the manufacture of them panels has a huge carbon footprint and them things last like 15 years on the outside. www.lowtechmagazine.com has a couple articles of interest that go deeper into this.

Didn't fuel usage cause all of these problems. Petrol. Wretched stuff. It runs low, yikes, this human species is addicted, junkies for the stuff. All adicted and life is falling apart due to heroin (petrol) so we tried switching to solar (methadone)then we tried switching to, that didn't work, so now you want ethanol (suboxin).

let me tell you why I love kratom--because it's not too addictive and when combined with weed gives me a rather opium-like feeling and helps with pain. But it only calls to me once every few weeks or something. Kratom could be a huge problem, if we took it all the time. As a people addicted to stuff that they can't control, stuff that fills our oceans with plastic and all that jazz, the human race outa cut back to none. Or be cool like me and switch to a type of fun sauce that you use about 10% as much as you used to use your old opium/petrol.

PS now, I am stone

Yeaa i actually did think you typed that out on purpose because it's funny to start about axl rose here. i just about forgot when i read fairbanks' post, sorry about that

You're a bit confusing, and I didn't really get the guns and roses joke; but I'll tackle what I can.

GMO Corn as ethanol CANNOT be compared to hemp and is a disservice to hemp to say such a thing. First off, most of our corn goes towards livestock and artificial sweetener. So the room to use GMO corn as ethanol is just big enough to obviously fail. Also, corn is an agriculture intensive crop, it needs constant care from pesticides and machinery to keep it producing. In fact, this year b/c of weather our corn crop was reduced significantly. Regardless, GMO Corn ethanol is not even close to comparable to the efficiency of hemp ethanol.

Hemp is practically a weed (no pun intended) and isn't agriculture intensive. The uses beyond ethanol are insane it could supplement our paper industry for wood pulp and clothing industry for cotton. Wood pulp, cotton, and corn are unsustainable chemical intensive processes that are ecocidal.

Also. I said SOLAR PROJECTS not solar panels. There are ways of getting solar energy w/o using panels made of unsustainable materials. Even the low tech magazine that you cite agrees that solar projects are sustainable, their second article on the home page is about solar projects for entire cities. http://www.lowtechmagazi...-the-solar-envelope.html

Have fun in the clouds my friend. Anything is addictive, it's about our intentions.

I was trying to have a good discussion on psychedelics, technology, and 21st century society like the OP said. I put good time into putting out my thoughts. Thanks for trolling though... You're such a clever funny guy...

I hardly grasp or understand what you guys are talking about so i tried to stay out of the conversation. I thought this thread could also have room to talk about the drug DMT and what role it could play combined with 21th century knowledge about the human body and brain. I just stopped to point out something i noticed which bothered me while patiently waiting for someone more knowledgable than me to chime in and talk about topics i do kind of understand. In hindsight it seems i missread the tone of both your posts and my contribution was virtually nothing.

There's no need however to be disappointed when interaction doesn't go exactly the way you intended. Especially on the internet it's hard to understand each other some times.. But i'm sure you've learned something useful and surely ordened your thoughts a bit better typing them out in text. No effort is ever wasted my friend. Again, sorry for any misunderstanding, sir