..so Lovers and Seekers ..

i've had a few DMT 'breakthrough' experiences ('above the threshold' as we used to say) which have been like total tantra..the Cosmic Orgasm..the unification of masculine/feminine principles..the eternal orgasm..
..while none of these involved physical ejaculation, the end 'result' was similar..

and i've had a little bit of what i'd call 'good' sex over the years, in a few senses..
i.e 1) with a very loving and close partner..or 2) with complete abandon..no tomorrow..lost in the fluids etc..

..while i would never give up the opportunity for good sex, i feel that these entheogenic/spiritual tantric experiences were far 'deeper' in their aftereffects and influence, as well as total immersion..and, oddly, i remember aspects of them better (particularly the 'spiritual' aspects)
..after the first such experience i completely understood how you could be a celibate tantric monk (not that i want celibacy)

i'm curious if anyone else has had such experiences..or instead feels that sex can still go further than even a cosmic DMT orgasm..?

be especially interested in the opinions of either celibate monks/nuns or sex-workers..
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Though they have similariries I don't think they can really be compared to one another.

I've been celibate for over three years. IMHO, sex is the most over-rated mind altering experience I've ever encountered in my life. I view it as the ultimate mosquito bite: it feels sooo good to scratch, but once the itch is gone, so is my desire.

Entheogens challenge me every time I encounter them, and the desire to continue exploring never ceases. To each their own.

Two very different things that are very hard to compare.

"Good" sex, as in "making love with someone you are deeply in love with", can be one of the deepest spiritual experience.

So is the DMT breathrough.

To be honnest, I think both are complementary and equally powerful. I wouldn't experience making love the same way if I didn't have all these enlightening breathroughs inbefore. And I wouldn't experience psychedelics the same way if I didn't have a satisfying way of expressing my sexual energy.

Celibacy and ascetism isn't my path. I feel like sexual abstinence is unnatural and can be a form of escapism. Spirituality, the way I see it, should be in harmony with our natural impulses, and sexuality should be expressed, for it is one of the most beautiful gifts life has to offer.

..well, a range of responses so far, thanks everyone..!

so, any sex-workers about then..?

DMT breakthrough for sure, but don't doubt that various types of sex (including consensual BDSM) can take one to extremely deep, psychedelic and even blackout/syncope realms (due to intensity is my guess based on experience ).

imo if you want to explore the full depths of what it can mean to be human, not only must you be willing to risk DMT breakthrough but also should be willing to explore any and all types of sex that vaguely tittilate you. You see, here's the big key to it all - for it to work the right way, one must surrender/let go completely/utterly, at least for a short while. This is what they share in common.

Depends on what depth you value to be the more deep I guess.

But to compare sex and DMT then I'd say the breakthrough period is the act of sex and the euphoric afterglow is definately the climax.

I've had bad sex and I've had some pretty nonsensical breakthroughs. Both subjects are prone to give after effects, change of perceptions etc.

I suppose with the DMT thing you're pretty much on your own in every way and that's how that substance is best experienced. Sex can be part of many other experiences, other entheogens, music, exciting locations in which a DMT breakthrough would be inadvisable and I assume the list goes on.

All that may note quite match up, for sure! We all know the infinite nature of the DMT experience only too well.

I'm quite certain I've still never had the ultimate sex in that I've never found my equal, so I suppose I'll be leaving this space blank for now.

Love is deeper than both.

On occasion it seems that Love is something DMT and sex have in common.

I certainly don't necassarily see them as seperate on the whole although they obviously can be.

Don't you think that love find it's better expression in the act of love making...? Or maybe, one of it's better expressions..

The dissolution of one into the other... the becoming of one through communion with another human being, through love...

Could also be acheived as simply as looking into the eyes of another or holding hands though, right?

How about looking into the eyes of another while holding hands under the influence of the molecule?

That sounds nice

..good answer poly..

the answer, i guess..

and Love certainly takes both Sex and DMT much further than without..


also, great to hear from u Pandora..greetings
..being human..yes..indeed..we can fool around in hyperspace for all eternity..we only get this body once..
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just want to add to my OP, that 'cosmic-orgasm' breakthrough wasn't (isn't) the common type of breakthrough for me (if there is such a thing)
and, in the peak, the climax is forever..if this is achievable in the human realm i'd sure like to know about it..
.

wow, we have a new record! Love saves the day again.

Since my sexual performance is about the same length as a DMT breakthrough, I'd say DMT is definately the deeper one! Yeah, it sucks

Well, I've experienced the becoming of one with the universe and God in something of a 20 minute full body/universal orgasm through unconditional, tangible love. I was screaming, laughing, crying, running around jumping on my furniture because I was so over the top overjoyed with perpetual, merciless euphoria. For me, DMT takes the cake.

You can substitute everything you just said with sex, and it still makes sense, maybe even more.

The DMT experience is NOT a vital part of being human, we can observe this in the majority of people who don't smoke DMT nor take any psychedelic drugs.

Are you sure you're celibate or you just haven't found the right person to share yourself with? Would you remain celibate if you were in a romantic relationship with another individual?

One who is in love with someone may say the same about DMT,

"DMT is the most overrated mind altering experience I've ever encountered in my life. I view it as the ultimate mosquito bite: it feels so good to scratch, but once the itch is gone, so is my desire."

"My wife challenges me every waking moment of my life, and the desire to connect with her on a deeper level through sex never ceases."

In love with a person, or a drug? To each his own, I guess.

Just playing devils advocate here

I don't value the psychedelic experience over any experience I can have with a woman I may find myself in love with, even FOND of. The experiences aren't comparable to me though, and I value them both entirely differently. When I am smoking DMT it is about ME and my relationship with myself. I am peering into the mirror. When I am with a woman it is about US, peering into ourselves while ridding ourselves of all the negativity, and when it's over and to feel that elated and to have shared that ecstasy and elation with another human who WANTED that same relief from you, is quite profound and rewarding. It isn't about lust, it's about sharing yourself with another human being you care about.

the 2 of them combined.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner

I get what you are trying to say, and I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'll be the first one to say I haven't found the perfect person to share myself with. That is why I remain celibate. I find random sex for the sake of sense gratification repulsive and meaningless.

If I found my soul mate, I'm sure sex would be a more meaningful experience than the sexual encounters I've had in the past. I've had sex with people I've loved, but not the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. I'm not willing to settle in any way. I firmly believe that if I ever have sex again, or take the time to enter into a relationship again, it will be with the person I spend the rest of my life with. If I don't find that person, I'm cool with it. I have plenty of goals to accomplish, and plenty of people I want to help.

Even if I DO find the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, I think my answer will remain the same. However, a TIE with DMT may be holding that person in my arms, sincerely listening to their hopes and fears, looking into their eyes, and feeling the waves of true love.

As we age, our physical bodies will begin to slowly fade away, along with our sexual desire. A relationship and love that transcends the "physical act of love" up to the point of physical "death" is what I'm holding out for.