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Phalaris info Options
 
JourneyToJah
#1 Posted : 9/5/2012 10:47:50 PM

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I think I have two types of Phalaris spp. growing in my garden. It's too late now but I'll come with some photos tomorrow.

I think they are arundinacea and red turkey ( or something similar? ).

I was watching this thread, but as I cannot post in it yet I'll start here...

I saw somewhere in the last few pages of that topic that someone talked about breeding the grass. I think this is a wonderful idea. I have some background with cannabis and I think that some information and following to see if it reacts to photoperiod to flower (like cannabis?) and maybe keep it in veg to increase yield.

Also, because of the high variety of the containing alkaloids ( wanted/unwanted ) in subspecies I think that maybe they can be hybridized to increase the wanted ones and decrease the unwanted ones.

Anyone tried or knows anything about this?

PS: if someone can post a link to this in the Phalaris thread would be greatly appreciated.
With these hands I have killed man and destroyed hopes and dreams. But when I open these hands I can hold my wife, make my children laugh and even aid others. It's not the path that we take but the choices that we make along that path that makes us who we are. -Waugriff

 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
endlessness
#2 Posted : 9/5/2012 11:00:29 PM

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You CAN post in that thread, the collaboration subforum is open to all members Smile

There is also a phalaris ID thread in that subforum where you can post the pictures of the phalaris you can find.

My signature phalaris link and all the links therein should be a good starting point for your phalaris information quest Smile
 
JourneyToJah
#3 Posted : 9/5/2012 11:03:25 PM

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Thank you endlesness! I didnt have a look if I can post there or not. Will move my questions there.

Peace Smile
With these hands I have killed man and destroyed hopes and dreams. But when I open these hands I can hold my wife, make my children laugh and even aid others. It's not the path that we take but the choices that we make along that path that makes us who we are. -Waugriff

 
AlbertKLloyd
#4 Posted : 9/6/2012 2:50:05 AM

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Appleseed bred the plants for some time.
Phalaris sp. 'Big medicine' was a result

Ronpha grass is worth looking into, it is a hybrid between two species, it is sterile if I am not mistaken.

Appleseed reported not being able to breed undesirable alkaloids out of plants. He also reported shifting chemical variation over generations where grass that had fairly pure DMT ended up having other alkaloids after a few generations.

His solution was to experiment with preparation methods and he found that simmering the grass by dropping it into boiling water for 10-15 minutes only seemed to grab most of the DMT and very little of whatever alkaloid causes the negative effects. The mystery alkaloid could be hordenine or gramine or variations on those themes, but to my knowledge is not presently identified.

I have been collecting seeds from genetically diverse stands of Phalaris arundinacea for selection

Different organizations bred the plants and tested for alkaloids, while looking for low alkaloid varieties for farm animals and grazing. Some of their data is interesting.

Trouts online Aya book has good collation of data like that
http://www.erowid.org/li...ec3_part2_phalaris.shtml

Check out this page showing alkaloid variation in P arundinacea
http://www.erowid.org/li...aris_reports_arund.shtml
The clone numbers are USDA clones, some of them can be found to this day
Here is an example:
Clone number (108-3)
was harvested (21 July 1970)
in/from (Indiana)
was the (First regrowth) age (42 days)
has (D+M)
at a dry weight of: (1.19%)

(note that D+M plants can have DMT and NMT and their 5Meo variations, no differentiation among these was made)
So that clone tested as having 1.19% alkaloid content rich in tryptamines!

Then there is this page:
http://www.erowid.org/li...aloid_distribution.shtml
(Marten et al. 1973)
0.29% in upper half of leaf blades
0.23% in lower half of leaf blades
0.07% in leaf sheaths
0.04% in stems
0.05% in inflorescences.
and when above ground parts was 0.19% the rhizomes was 0.01%.


Notice that the leaves are where the alkaloids are, also in other studies the tender new leaves had the highest levels of alkaloids and lower leaves had low levels.

Sadly the page on breeding obserations for this genus is short:
http://www.erowid.org/li..._phalaris_breeding.shtml

Marum et al. 1979 mentioned that gramine genes are known to be recessive to all other indole genes.

Oram 1970 found that tryptamine production capabilities were highly inheritable. [Tryptamine producing genes have been determined to be dominant.]

Østrem notes that Phalaris arundinacea is highly self sterile.

Production of high alkaloid types through deliberate breeding effort will be a much simpler, productive venture and far less costly than the ongoing programs to the contrary.


the right cross could be amazing, I'd bet Ronpha grass is worth looking into making from high DMT strains of P tuberosa and P arundinacea
 
 
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