Went through search function and found that no one here has mentioned Zen meditation. I'm referring to the meat and potatoes of Zen, living in the present. Zazen, or sitting mediation is just an adjunct part of Zen practice. After my first time smoking DMT, which was a breakthrough I immediately began streamlining my life, dropping addictive habits and taking inventory of all my actions. Also, I began researching hundreds of new topics including Zen.

I started with just paying close attention to my actions and this led me to analyze my thoughts more closely. Later, this led to me beginning to feel as if I didn't need to think as much and almost as if my physical actions were happening autonomously. This all took place during the year after my first breakthrough where I didn't partake in DMT another time. As time went on I find I have more and more awareness of my thoughts and physical presence while also increasing creativity in physical actions as trivial as doing dishes or making tea.

After the year passed I heard DMT calling my name again and procured a few grams and had a few sub breakthroughs before another breakthrough took place. I immediately felt my Zen increase as soon as I returned to baseline and it has begun to accelerate with each passing day. I'm excited that I can integrate the breakthroughs through conscious self-work throughout my daily activities.

Looking forward to a 3rd breakthrough and where this will take my Zen living.

To anyone looking for a constant source of conscious integration do some internet research on Zen and give it a try.

My favorite Zen teachers or masters include, Alan Watts, Thich Nhat Han, Osho, and Bodhiharma.

Thanks for posting, it's great to hear you've made a lot of progress! I'm trying to do the same thing and am getting better at observing my thoughts and realising when they dift away from the present.

I practice zen meditation several times.... if you can integrate the habbit of meditation every day ... you can fell the change of your conciensnes. Is a profund tool.

I'm glad to hear that you had such a meaningful experience.


Can thoughts not also be autonomous? A Zen master might say that stopping such things is like damming a river...

Anyways, if it feels right, I say go for it.

Funny you say that hixidom, because in the last few weeks I have begun to notice exactly that. Not fighting my thoughts but rather observing them has taken energy from, "damming the river" and put it into more productive activities.

Wish I knew the goal was not to, "stop" thoughts earlier but I'm glad I have come to this new point. Definitely feeling more of a, "flow" in my everyday life.

"Just sitting" has become my favorite part of being alive. It started out as a practice in order to do something or get somewhere, but I've fallen in love with it. Watch out, if you keep sitting, it will take over your life and you will actually experience peace! Scary, I know.

When your thoughts become your friends and your direct experience becomes your lover, that's meditation.

Wow... I'm really, really glad I decided to read this thread. This idea of allowing thoughts to flow just struck a huge, resounding chord with me. Like... hm... wow.

Thanks for that.

This is a good place to start

Well I am surprised nothing much turned up in your searches. There are certainly some folks here who have been training their minds to be awake in the present moment, here & now, cultivating an awareness of the empty clarity of the non-dual state (No Mind or Zero). Doing the ole undoing of themselves, steadily and intentionally towards a deep pause in the time-space-continuum.

As Alan Watts used to say, "Trying not to try." I know some people who frequent the Nexus, do occasionally make references to: Advaita, Zen, Vipassana and Taoism. I'm certain I've heard the "chopping wood, carrying water" quote many a time, over here in this cyber oasis.

I myself have brought up Chan/Seon/Zen in Nexian in conversations, fairly often, as I have practiced the Korean flavor of Zazen meditation, since way back in 1974. Although honestly, I have combined it with Kriya Yoga and Surat Shabd Yoga, to synthesize into a practice with it's own unique character. Anyway, my Tae Kwon Do instructor gave us the watered-down version of Seon, it opened door before my increasingly meditative pursuits. In fact, many folks find their way to the internal art of the peaceful warrior, through the external study of Asian martial arts.

No coincidence, as Bodhidharma (Tamo/ Damo) founded the first Shaolin Temple in Henan Province, in approximately 495 AD. From the desire to learn self-defense, I awakened to the beauty of living in an aware state of translucency of mind, whereby I was free to see the vast SPACE and emptiness within all of this constantly changing phenomenon of sentient existence.

I am naturally predisposed to have a Yogic perspective, with an attraction towards Advaita Vedanta. But my attunement towards Zen has aided to clarify my view of everything else (and for that matter, my view of no-thing at all). In stillness is the void of reality, true emptiness of mind, yet a fullness of conscious-awareness.

Seon lead me to dig into the Zen writings of Allan Watts, D.T. Suzuki and more importantly, Shunryu Suzuki Roshi. For those of you who have not read it, check out his book: Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. Some of the Roshi's clear wisdom is echoed here:

http://blog.gaiam.com/qu...s/authors/shunryu-suzuki

After art school days, I used to frequent the Zen Center in Boulder, Colorado. I attended many wonderful group meditations and lectures, most notably, those by Kyozan Joshu Sasaki Roshi and Korean Seon master, Seung Sahn. Come to think of it, Sasaki Roshi was the first person I had ever met who when I observed him carefully... I discovered that there was no one there. And he would gaze right back at you, centered serenely, not buying any of your bullshit for even a second. He was a living transparency of sorts, CLARITY, like gazing through quartz crystal or something equally clear. He is still living today and is now 105 years old.



Exactly, one does tend to simplify one's lifestyle when embracing a re-birthing of this magnitude. Funny thing about Zen, though... as a Buddhist tradition, it is very formal and has all kinds of rules and regulations. For an essentially formless practice, it has many distinctly rigid and concrete forms of behavior and proper etiquette. The sheer irony... for even giving Zen a name at all, is counter to the true nature of Zen.

Quintessential for the state of No Mind, one must release one's habit of continual quantification and conceptualizing. Zen koans like: "What is the sound of one hand clapping." or "What was your original face?"... all were designed intentionally to be wholly un-answerable. To lead us to release our fixation with rationalizing every moment of our brief organic lifespan and see clearly what is happening inside of us and all around us, ad infinitum.

To calmly sit and observe what is on it's own terms, free of labels and associations... not try to force the flow in any way, nor seek to grasp it's elusive, enigmatic nature. To be aware of being aware... and not label it as anything or attempt hold on to it's glorious perfection as it unfolds. Surely, this is the effulgence of Satori.



Still, I love all of the unique cultural aspects which have gradually bonded within the sphere of practical awareness, as it traveled from India with Bodhidharma (Tamo/ Damo) to China, where is blossomed as Chan Buddhism. Chan most naturally, expanded into Korea first, were it was named Seon and then, down it flowed into Japan. I personally feel that Chan evolved to it's most sublime degree in Japan. I recommend taking a look at the teaching of the Kokushi, Bankei Yotaku and his idea of Fo-sho (The Unborn).

http://www.enlightened-s...g/bankei_zen_master.html

Being a musician, a flutist primarily, I have been drawn to the enigmatic Zen music of Honkyoku. Hundreds of years ago, wandering Zen monks called, "Komuso" (priests of nothingness) created a unique form of musical prayer, involving bamboo shakuhachi flutes. "Blowing Zen" is the intended realization through this musical practice. This is to say, the witness to the doing of the flute playing (or undoing, depending on how you look at things), observes the reality of the One Note.

The "One Note" is a term made famous by Zen Roshi, Watazumi Doso. One Note is what all sound emerges from, out of complete silence, and it is also the totality of all sounds interacting together, as all sounds are the One Note appearing and disappearing back into the Void. One incredible Buzzzzzzz (or perhaps, hum).

I personally liken it to the oscillating Carrier Wave, as all sound seems to emanate from it's depths and yet, it has it's own unique tone and sonic frequency. If we listen carefully, anyone can hear it's living presence. So, especially in the last 2 years, playing the shakuhachi has become an intimate Sadhana of mine. A very, very, very... Zen-like kind of spiritual training and the most natural and beneficial form of pranayama I have yet to encounter. Gets you high as a kite in a short span of time.

A couple links to some extraordinary performances of Zen shakuhachi:

http://www.youtube.com/w...tMqFvJwsUiJX&index=1

http://www.youtube.com/w...tMqFvJwsUiJX&index=2


No, you are not tripping, the picture and the soundtrack are not exactly in sinc on this last one but... Yokoyama Katsuya was one of he greatest players of Honkyoku music ever and I love this performance, despite the peculiarity of it's production.

http://www.youtube.com/w...tF-0ftMqFvJwsUiJXindex=3

On a technical point, the state of No Mind is a far higher attainment than what success with koans leads to. A koan will lead one to the recognition of luminosity, or the "I AM" experience from an Advaitan perspective, but not the recognition of emptiness required to experience No Mind.

Also, the non-dual state is not No Mind; that particular attainment requires a firm confidence in the natural state as the recognition of mind as empty eradicates any sense of identity or of being. I speak from experience on this rather than from dogma, much as I find the Buddhist model to be the most precise and eloquent map of 'spiritual' development, my knowledge of the scriptures and lineages is pretty basic.

Btw, I'm also a Tae Kwon Do practitioner! Nice to meet a fellow mystic, martial artist and musician!

Re. OP

I know you're probably already aware of this, but I'll mention it anyway for those interested in going further with their practice...

Although zazen is described as "just sitting", this doesn't necessarily mean "do nothing". Paradoxical as it is, working with "open awareness" style practices such as this require a certain balance of attentiveness and non-action. There are a few things to keep in mind, no pun intended, while sitting and, if understood and experienced clearly will lead to awakening:

- Notice how all sensations, every single one from thoughts to itches, are impermanent and do not last any more than a matter of milliseconds unless we grasp at them. While sitting, let your experience be just as it is but observe it from a wide and equanimous angle; let things be as they are, don't try to interfere with or change those sensations. Just observe them and see their impermanence as it occurs in real-time, at the bare sensate level of seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, thinking, and tasting.

- Notice how sensations don't appear 'from' anywhere and don't 'go' anywhere. They happen and they're gone; try to find their points of origin, existence and cessation, locate it in space/time in your own experience of the world. Look at how "you" as that which observes does not cause any of these sensations to arise. Turn the lens of attention back on that sense of "you" and see if there's anything different about those sensations and the ones in your big toe.

- Try to hold onto a thought or any other sensation. Notice that there's a subtle but definite mental tension which occurs in that moment. Try to find a sensation which, if clung to, has the ability to make you happy for any more than a moment.

Just a few points which have helped my practice and I thought were worth sharing.

Fascinating... I find your remarks about No Mind quite intriguing. Admittedly, my assumed knowledge is part of my dreamscape and I honestly know of no "technical point" that is even real outside of human thinking and it's circular logic. I believe any technical aspects or ideas, are theological distinctions and not really what Zen is pointing towards (or so I think).

Your concepts of No Mind and "I Am" are just that, concepts. Which are products of mind. We are all pretty much alike in this regard. Most of what can be said of the enigma of Zen is spoken in complete silence, meaning unspoken, so we are all handicapped by the use of language.

I feel that there is no technique to nothingness. No acquisition of emptiness. Perhaps there is a way of cultivating a higher awareness of this truth? But is it not Zen the pathless path and the methodless method? And I am being playful here, not resistant or contrary. I honor your wisdom, friend. And perhaps I am behaving a touch devilish? My bad, hehehe...

Koans by their very design, do not lead to anywhere. I have found they are devices to unlearn what we habitually project upon the Void. They neither lead one to a realization, nor are they some kind of stairway ascending to some level or another level. The intention is clearly to highlight the inadequacy of human reason and it's lopsided adherence to rationality. To ideally cause a shift in our mind-frame and redirect the fulcrum of attention to that unknowable void, the vacuum of absolute zero.

They are composed to stop the mind. So, I suppose they till the rigid soil of self and allow for a pause in the process, facilitating an original, spontaneous state of being. They are careful worded to effectively still the incessant conceptualizing that the human brain is so prone to do, and especially in this 21st century, they are a useful device. So too is the sound of a gong, sitting meditation and watching one's breath.

Furthermore, if one "recognizes emptiness"... who is doing the recognition? In other words, if one is conscious of having a fixed point of cognition, within this play of universal expression, this by it's very manifestation as an idea, is not exactly Non Mind either. Witness and that which is witnessed are dissolved by such a profound degree of perceptual attention. Self erasure? Emptiness is wholly empty and no one continues to exist in complete emptiness. What is is... and anything we believe about it, is just another passing thought bubble to release into the immeasurable Void.



I think we are splitting hairs here, philosophically, which is not the direct reflection of No Mind. But I do sincerely agree with your high ideal (at least, up to a point). To see duality and it's opposite polarity, non-duality, requires a witness to the seeming dichotomy. By eradicating mind-stuff, we awaken to find that we are in that sublime empty space, whereby we do not think at all. And within such infinite silence... what then is Zen? How can we even name it? Chan/Zen/Seon must also be burned in the invisible fire of our earnest soul inquiry. Although, I say this in terms of any and all conceptual formats, ideologies and theologies (themselves an irony unraveling).

I honestly cannot say if this impression is No Mind, for when I am centered in serenity, still and attuned to something I cannot think about or surely, cannot speak about (as we know that it is beyond the limiting scope of words or ideologies)... I do not exist. No-thing exists. Zero? At least I do not cling to any reference point or level of identification with myself. We are being, apparently being what we are... or in very many significant ways, we are a complete mystery.

No matter how many layers we peel away, another layer is found, for we are still existent and observing the phenomenon of Self. So, I feel that we create new interiors within the stillness we observe. Until we stop the maintenance of self referencing, we are bound to causality and so, duality and it's endless ramifications.



Well said and I am on the very same proverbial page, so to speak. Experience is the closest thing to "reality" that we can discover blooming before our awareness. Yet, largely we experience myriad illusions and the quantification of our direct experience, crystallizes as our existential dreamscape, our molded version of reality.

Ultimately, there is no "Zen" to speak of or write about. The Void has no features or characteristics at all, eh? When I an engrossed in thinking mode, I have come to believe that Zen is the antithesis to all of our mental gymnastics. It is something altogether mysterious and is absolutely elusive for humanoid thought.

When we embrace this training, we accept that we will likely be spinning mirages about what we are doing or for that matter, undoing. We merge within the immense internal silence, frozen in a delightful pause within this time-space-continuum... and that is that. Such practice can blossom exponentially and in so doing, said force of forcelessness, seems to temporarily stop our mind from generating further conceptual paradigms.

An eternal stillness is noticed by a fulcrum of being we once identified as Self, yet Egoself and Self (or Omniself) must by necessity evaporate fully, to undo oneself into the emptiness of Satori. Or so I have come to believe it to be and it's likely to be yet another illusory concept sneaking into my whimsical thoughts. And this is then intentionally released, as well. The profound sound of a gong. The feeling of sensation and mortal sentience. The rushing wind of our breath, arising and falling... but who is aware of all of this? I do not know and it is most likely, that nobody does.



Namaste! Likewise, it is a great honor to meet you and so many highly aware souls in this fine Nexian community. As far as Tae Kwon Do, it's been more than 25 years since I have trained in that art. I have gravitated towards Chen and Yang Family Tai Chi Chuan. Qi is Qi... so what's in a name?

So, admittedly, much of my practice is revolving around my study of the Tao. Now, that being said, "Tao" is just another word which cannot be defined or quantified through reason, self cognition or compressed into human linguistics. But we do feel the draw to label it as SOMETHING, which by it's very orientation, leads beyond it's own meaning. And freely remains a complete mystery to our minds, that's for sure. An empty cup is an empty cup.

If I might offer anything even remotely useful about Zen and Zazen, and I doubt this is even possible, I would suggest that through the process of this practice, we gradually resist the temptation to grasp the ungraspable. Again, as Alan Watts so succinctly alluded, "It's like trying not to try." Ain't life grand (sound of crickets chirping)?

They only become theological distinctions if they're interpreted within a particular theological paradigm, otherwise they, like all other words and letters, are simply convenient labels used to describe some aspect or another of direct sensate experience.

I'll cut to the chase and save us both a lot of time here: When I talk about 'spiritual' matters, I choose to speak from a relativistic point-of-view rather than, as a lot of the Advaitan and non-dualist crowd do, from some Absolute perspective where nothing ever really 'happens' or 'exists'. Language itself is inherently dualistic and cannot ever truly express the ineffable, yes, but when it comes down it, it's a necessity for communication at present.

The issue of semantics and accurate language in describing, or even discussing 'spiritual' matters is too complex to go into but I'm sure you'll understand where I'm coming from.


They are not "my" concepts, they are elements of two models you've expressed knowledge of and experience with.


I never suggested such a thing. The concept of nothingness is equally illusory, from a non-dual perspective, however the direct experiencing of nothingness is a very different matter.


Again, I suggested no such thing.


No, there are specific tried and tested techniques which lead to its direct experiencing; vipassana is, in my experience, the most powerful and effective method.


In that case, I can say that you've never successfully worked with koans. They, like all other meditative and contemplative techniques, are simply tools and nothing more.


That's one interpretation, yes. It's interesting that you say that they "ideally cause a shift" while having previously said that they do not lead one to a realization, such perceptual shifts are always accompanied by deep and lasting insights.


Language necessitates the invocation of a subject who experiences the apparent object those words describe in the mind of the person reading/hearing those words. It baffles me why people who proclaim themselves as being informed and enlightened continually jump to the conclusion that the person must be talking about a "me" who experiences when talking about this.

The recognition of emptiness is the recognition of emptiness, nothing more can really be said about it here without causing confusion.

I'll stop here as I have stuff to do , but I hope I've clarified where I'm coming from. I'll respond to the rest of your post when I have the chance; my tone of writing can often be taken as brusque or curt, please know that this is never my intention and that I just prefer straight-talk and the pragmatic side of awakening.

Peace.