hi everyone! Well oh well, it seems that I have a hard time accepting this illusion. I had a wonderful experience of shrooms later today.

Typical trip until again the harsh reality grasp me.

Even the spirits werent able to grab me, I was complete, one. And then, suddenly, I felt as if my world, my illusion, is found. that it cant stay like that, because I have found for this moment that we are all faking it. We are all faking life as if its important, but its not. It is a illusion, the world is around me only because I decide to look at it, otherwise the world does not exist. And it hit hard, bad elves looking at me in close eye vision with mean eye, just the feeling of beign used or something. But I was being used, used by the shrooms trying to live. those spirits are just waiting to live thrue us I guess. No doubt the elves are represented everywhere, because they exist somewhere, they are higher then us, but it doesnt mean anything, they still are in a illusion.

Ah yeah, things wants to live but I am the only one that let them live or not, I am the catalisist of all experience. No experience can occur if I am not allowing it, meaining that I decide everything around me, and if I decide to stop playing the game, the game will end, and that scares the fuck out of me.

What can I do when this happen. This in fact always happen nowadays no matter the substance or the dose I do. It's like when I take a psychadelic, I feel that im just bullshitting my self even more, throwing me into a even bigger illusion. Spirits exist, yes, but they exist within ourselves, meaning that they are not really there unless I give them the power to be there. Shrooms feeling cant exist without us trying it, we indeed create even more illusion.

I dont know what to do with this. I cant, for the sake of me, while tripping, accept the fact that life is a illusion and that I am only me everywhere, that its all I. its all me and that scares the fuck out of me. Why this happened. I know why, its because I love it, I love it, but I dont love to be used by a shroom spirit, I want to be the whole me, and I cant be me if I'm high on a illusion. So I think I cant trip anymore, I NEVER find a way to make the "paranoia" stop. The truth is so blatantly there, I cant live anymore, I cant pretend anymore. God dammit, I was having a nice trip for around 2 hours, nothing was going bad, I was able to appreciate everything until I made the realisation again, I am alone, and this is a illusion. I cant like it, this is not tru, and beyond this, fucking bad eye are looking at me and are making fun of my suffering. and once I let the "bad" spirit come thru, I cant pretend its not there.

ITs so crazy, I was completely englhigten, but this englightement scares me, terrifies me. I dont want to realize that this is bullshit, I ant to think that everything is there, I want to believe it, but its beyond me, I know the truth, and yeah. I cant trip anymore I think, or maybe I can but I need shamanic guidance or what?

The bad elves didnt scared me at first, they couldnt grab me, they couldnt because I was more then them. I was me, for a while at least, so any gods were not able to affect me in any way. I started playing the saxophone, and I swaer I never played like that in my entiore life. I had stopped playing for 3 month and decided that I wont be trying to be a jazzman, bnut how I played during the trip was beyond what I thought I could do. I was able to play anything I wanted to hear, I was the music before my brain. Anywaysm thats noit the point. I was playing and I was so enlighten that I was playing stuff anything would freaking love, I was completely what everything wanted to be on a instrument you know. I finally was. That was the meaning of being. The meaning of beign was to be playing me, not my thought, but me. The elves in my cev was not able to do shit. until I realize that those elves were really there, looking at me with a bad smiles, waiting for my fear to come back to me, and it did.

What the fuck did I just lived. I cant not stop the paranoia, because my paranoia is about something real, my paranoia is about the realization that this is a illusion!!!!. How come there is fucking spirits, how can they be. of course they are, but I mean I dont know, I didnt thought I could see them. they scares me because well they are so strange but I still know that they are living in the illusion, I still know that they are me in whatever dimension playing the game.. I felt it. I know I felt it that all that I was seeing was a reflection of me, just a illusion, a representation of a imagination, nothing else. yes they arfe there, as long as I decide that they are, when I will wake up, they wont be nothing more then nothing.


I' m not afraid until I realize that they are there for real, I mean how can they be. The spirit world scares me so much, its beyond me. It fascinates me, but its still me, and they can do whatever they want I fear once I see them.

I am officially scared of psychadelic, but most importantly I am scared of everything I am, psychadelic inclueded. that the only way I can interpret my feelings. I am everything and this everything scares me, I'm not sure if I want to discover everything I am that I am not, you know. I dont want to see all the multiple vaiation of this whole illusion, I just want the illusion to stop, to be finnaly awakened.

Anyone can help me here? how to accept this fear, how can I accept everything I am?

EDIT: and the most scary thing that happen is when I stop believe its true, everything collapse around me. I call my best friend and I'm telling him that we are not real and he answer me in a uncomprensible manner, completely gibberish, he understood what I meant by me telling him that he did not exist, by me telling him you do not exist, for a moment there, he couldnt think straight it felt like.
I forgot to mention that when I was having the realization that this is all a illusion, flys in my house started to act weird, real weird. One fly came right towards me and landed on my arm, no matter what I was doing to make it leave my arm, it just walked on my arm. I was shacking my arm and it only wanted to become me agin. I knew that she was coming home. This is fucking insane shit. Another fly story. All this happened within 5 minutes. all related to the fact that I felt that I was able to decided wheter thing existed or not. Another fly was on my window. I shakes my hand around it, she didnt move. I start slapping on the window hard, she didnt move at all. how come she was again, and that another fly, acting like a fly? flying away, why? maybe because she knew that I would not hurt her? that I was light? I really felt as if I was good. but all this illusion is bad. Maybe I'm the evil that wanted to live and decided that in order to live, me as selfsih fuck, accepted the suffering of other for a little bit of pleasure! No that crazy, better yet. I decided to create everything for my pleasure. I decided to create the illusion for my pleasure. I divided my self to live right? but why cant I accept it when I'm on a psychedelic. I am not able to accept all those mind shattering realisation, it scares me and then I start thinking that I am the one and that if I stop pretending, everything will stop.

ah men, that was completely fucked. Please help me guys, I know you have went thruw this did you?
lol

please, can anyone tells me that I am insane, that we are two and that we will always be in this illusion and that this is not just me experiencing myself over and over like a fucking retard

Nope, it's you. It's all you experiencing you. Now, go feed the cat.

Take a deep breath man. At first, it was difficult to reflect on it but I had the intention of reading every single word in your post and I did..

1) You are not insane*; you are on/or just coming off of mushrooms
*by "societal standards", pretty sure we're all insane...

2) Were you tripping alone? I feel as if these solo trips have the biggest potential... either way. Good or bad. I tend to trip with people, the presence of another human being is reassuring. Maybe try tripping with a friend next time?

3) If there is too much negative energy manifesting itself in your life/your trips, maybe it is time to take a break from psychedelics and work on the core issues, meditate, etc. (the student speaks as the teacher here, but nonetheless..)

3A) That said, If I was having a string of difficult experiences, or a dark cloud hung over my head, I would definitely think twice about taking a strong trip alone..

4)Go eat something delicious (Fresh fruits, cheese, etc) your faith in reality will be momentarily re-instated

5)The fly thing is really cool, I wonder if you were "actually" seeing the fly and not hallucinating openly? I've had really weird stuff like that happen too, on shrooms. And once on an Island off the coast of Vietnam, dead sober, a fly just chilled on my shirt for like 30 minutes, and let me take macro shots 1/2 inch away... these new york flies disappear as soon as your hand twitches!

Thank you for sharing your experience.

why do you assume that just becasue there are other levels of which all of this is woven into, that this level here is all an illusion?

When you see a blade of grass do you assume that single blade is an illusion just because you realize there is a complex and interconnected root network below the soil that connects each single blad of grass to all of the rest?

This level is as real and tangible as any other level. Each level depends on the other levels..if you do not have the individual parts on hand to build a car, you wont ever have a car. So, once you build that car do you suddenly assume that because it looks like a car, drives like a car and sounds like a car that the individual parts are now all mini illusions?

It is not like, one level negates the other. Not at all. Each level is analagous to every other level. They support each other.

The funny thing about seeing the truth, is that if it seems to essentially dismiss what is going on all around us it most likely is not the whole truth.

It's tough to digest this at first. But I assure you, as Jamie said, this world is not bullshit. The one thing in your picture that may be truly false is that real/ not real duality. Think of this world as a level of reality. It may from certain perspectives be a construct or almost a big game board- but rather than dwelling on the fact that this isn't the "ultimate" reality, look at it as an opportunity for experience. It's a deeply felt, immersive reality experience with real consequences- real because they can bring you real joy or suffering. That stuff is real because you feel it.

Try not to get attached to traditional reality motifs. It's time to just let go and enjoy the experience.

Piggybacking off Jamie and Guyomech, I think part of the illusory quality of this world stems from the fact that it is real, yet at the same time there is more to it than meets the eye. This doesn't negate it as false, just that there are additional "concealed elements". Part of what the DMT experience has shown me is that often times people have a tendency to pick a side to just about everything in life, and that most people have difficulty holding two seemingly conflicting thoughts in their mind at the same time as being simultaneously true.

The other way I see the physical world as illusory is in the strict physicality of it, where if we get down to the subatomic level we see that most of an atom is empty space. Even the densest part of the atom, the nucleus, is supposed to be mostly empty space. So we have a whole bunch of particles making up the world that essentially have significantly little physical about them, and yet we have seemingly solid matter. Does this make matter not real? No. If you jump in front of a moving car, even though that car may be made up of mostly empty space, you're still gonna take quite the beating. From my understanding, the electromagnetic forces within the atoms and molecules are what creates that sense of physicality. So physical matter becomes an illusion not in the sense that it's not real, just that it's not how it appears to us to be.

does the fact that a video game is not "real" make it any less fun to play?

well then brahman, enjoy your illusion, for that is why you are it.

also listening to alan watts is always good comfort for the soul

I do not want to say I completely understand what you are experiencing. Just because that I have not experienced such a deep level of psychedelic power on shrooms.

But I can assure you that YOU ARE NOT INSANE. I have found myself believing this many times, with a sober mind. The belief that everything manifests from WITHIN ME at every given moment I have predetermined what would happen.

I don't know what to tell you, it is a personal blockage that you must strive to get over. As I have. To me it seems to erupt from a very intense perception of pride. Egoism being the core.

If I had any advice, strive to destroy your ego. Realize you are the ant, and reality is the giant. You play a SMALL part, you do not create the parts. We are all equal in existence. For existence is all that is there.

Best of luck to you my friend

Walter

thanks guys. I am fine now.

The realisation that is hard to digest is thats its all me.

The illusion is the fact that I think that any reality, hyperspace, or this world, is real. It is not real. it is real only because I decide to believe it, if I decide to really see, my world will collapse. Everything is me, and so all this world is possible because I decided to play the games.

I think that this is exactly what buddha was saying. I now understand why he was saying that the reality is a illusion. But most importantly I felt it, I know it now. I dont have any doubt. Suffering comes from the fact that we decide to believe that all of this is not me. Then you fall in the illusion that this world is independant from me, but its not.

We are all one, but in the illusion word, we believe that we are individuals, thats the rule here. Each of everyone of us can become one again. We are not one right now because we decide to believe and live in the illusion. And thats what scared me to hell yesterday; I was not able to believe it and so everything was leaving. Maybe that was my fear, my fear to finnally be one? I mean all my attachements to this world cant be good, but I like it somehow.

I have learn this hard lesson. Did anyone went thrue exactly what I described and learn to accept it? But more I was realizing that its all a illusion, thats its all me living this bullshit, the more I was going out of here, it just felt like that. and im scared that if I let my self go into this, I would indeed become one, therefore leaving this world? This sounds crazy I know, maybe I just had to let it happen and see where it brings me.

I'm decided though that my next experience will be a breakthrough. I want to go all in, but god damn its hard to accpet the reality of the elves and the other realities.

I

Yes all the different dimension are real, and tangible. yet they are still a illusion, therefore anything living on any dimension are a illusion and are living their own illusion in their own respective dimension.

^ this sort of implies a holographic universe..and what you are saying, within a holographic universe would essentially make everything at every level an illusions..even the universe itself. There cannot be levels that are not analagous to other levels within a holographic theory of the cosmos..so if we have illusion on one level we have it on all levels..so essentially that would cancel out the idea of illusion alltogether because without a referance point of comparison the concept becomes meaningless, and everything becomes valid.

Basically I think "illusion" is not a very sophisticated word to use here. "subjective paradigm" is a better term.

Maya.

Unity hidden under the multiplicity that is phenomenal existence. And a quite special unity at that. The "illusion" that separateness is all there is......hehe...no no no.

Enjoy.

You dont understand what I say. Everything indeed, in every dimension, still is a illusion. What I mean by illusion is not about subjective paradigm. What I mean when I say that its a illusion is the illusion that we believe about those dimension, the illusion to believe that you are different from anything. Everything in the universe, in hyperspace and whatever, is yourself. They are real, sure, but they are nothing different then you, everything in every dimension still is you. And so, and that is important that you understand, When I say illusion, its the illusion that you believe that its not you. The illusion is that you and me and us, and the entities, and anything in any place in the universe that exist, beauty, death, life, believe that its true.

There is no beauty, no difference, no originality, nothing special, no death, its all you and that why I use the term illusion. I should always say, illusion of multiplicity. All around me, its just me trying to be something. . Anyone falls in the illusion at all time since its living. If you live here, its because you believe that its true. To live is to believe in the illusion. Once you completely realize that its a illusion, you may indeed become one again, and not live in the illusion of multiplicity.

I hope that you understand now . All my problems start from that fact. Well it is a fact, its undeniable once you realize. And there is my problem. How can I continue to live in any dimension, since that is not living my own self. It's merely impossible to be one in here, since everyone is playing the game. Every living thing, entities included, believe in this illusion. They believe that they are something unique, we believe that we are unique and different then a plant for example. Yes materially, she is diffeerent, but what lives inside is the same thing.

I cant however define what I am. That is my problem. Even the notion of nothing is a illusion. Life is a illusion, death is a illusion, and nothingess is a illusion also. I am. But what. I am what exactly.

I am not life or death. I am not anything at all. The illusion is to believe that you are something indeed. And so, yeah, life probably is trying to find something, but theres nothing to find. The only realisation can only be to realize that we are, that we all are, playing a game? I'm thinking out loud. Each and every one of us might have indeed to discover that illusion and then figure a way to become one again. I dont know why I use the term one. It just seems the best way to name what I am.

I have to add this. The real problem I have is that when I'm on a psychadelic, I realize that I want to stop playing the illusion. I cant take this anymore and I feel that I have the power to make all the illusion. indeed, stuff comes back to me, well the flys did, and my friend talking giberish was also doig it. thats the freaky part.

I dont know how to express this well but ill try.
Your expierience was intentional, to integrate it you can channel it into joyful action.
Words will never be able to wrap up the e pierience or describe it, categorize it.

Decide what you want to do with your time in this life. You have many options, do what you like and express your deep reaching feelings through that.

Boldly become one with your life by living it. Analysis of the deepest aspects of being? Forget about that one, understanding comes from action.

But who am i to tell you what to do, you are your own boss.

lol maybe you had Afghany flies... they don't care about anything. They fly right onto your eye, up your nose, into your ear. Bold little guys they are.
Part of your story reminded SWIM of a walk through the woods on LSD long ago. He was out with friends, all enjoying altered perceptions when a small plastic sandwich bag stopped him. "Take me along won't you? I don't belong here and could surely use a ride." The conversation went on for quite a while until SWIMs friends noticed he had stopped and came back to get him. So SWIM grabbed the bag and placed it in his pocket... and continued the walk.
After the experience SWIM realized that the bag wasn't really an entity, nor did it truly have feelings etc. This was an extension of SWIMs feelings. Here is a plastic bag in the forest, and it doesn't belong here. Furthermore how could the bag be enjoying itself when it's not doing what its meant to do. This projection of thoughts/ideas onto reality with the aid of an altered perception manifested SWIM's thoughts and feelings into a full blown convo with a plastic sandwich bag. How fun.
The bag ended up in the trash.
Unheimlich**

Actually, when Jamie used the term "subjective reality", I think he hit the nail on the head.

You keep using the term "illusion", or "game" or even "bullshit", as if you are placing a judgement on this reality for not being real enough.

You've got to drop the real/ not real dualism. It's driving you insane.

What we are experiencing is a particular interpretation of the larger reality. We see it in 3D in linear time, etc... The human perspective. While tripping, we are freed from the normal confines of this perspective and get a broader interpretation of reality, which makes the normal day to day one seem thin and lacking by comparison. However, if you ride out the whole experience you should also arrive at that place where you can see and appreciate the miracle of our particular type of reality, and how it makes for a great context for a meaningful existence.

There is no level of this universe that is more objectively real than the rest. They're all just different perspectives, different angles. You are here to learn and enjoy- might as well embrace that.

I believe when the buddha talked about how all life is suffering, he was referring to the fear/desire complex. Essentially fear and desire are just two different ways of looking at the same thing. The biggest fear/desire is the fear of losing life/desire to not lose life. People are often trying to conquer their fears, but this fear/suffering will never go away so long as there are desires because along with the desires will come the fear of not being able to fulfill those desires thus creating a cycle of suffering.



As I mentioned in the first post in this thread, people often struggle to manage two seemingly contradictory thoughts in their head at the same time as being simultaneously true. In this case we have the particular conundrum of being individuals while also being one. The truth is we're both at the same time, and they do not have to be conflicting sentiments. You can be an individual, and also realize that you along with all the other individual constituents of the universe make up one whole complete universe/universal being.

Let's take a triangle for example. When you look at a triangle, your bicameral brain has two ways of processing the visual information that is a triangle. Your (dominant) left hemisphere which analytically divides reality into its individual components will look at a triangle and see 3 individual lines. The right hemisphere which perceives wholistic, indivisible, visual, symbolic information will see the whole triangle as the geometrical shape. The trick is however, that it is both 3 individual lines as well as the whole triangle in which those 3 lines have special relationships to each other simultaneously, and as a human with two hemispheres, you can easily toggle back and forth between how you perceive it. This same notion applies to humans' individuality and oneness in the universe. Since most people's left hemispheres are dominant, it is notoriously difficult to stop analytically breaking down a wholistic universe (predominantly via language - the main tool of the ego) and perceive everything as separate instead of connected.

I wish I could have had a wonderful experience on shrooms later today.

I wouldn't worry about the lack of reality so much, It sounds as if you're trying to convince yourself that you aren't god, or that this existence is all a dream you can control, but only when you realize you can control it.

I can't tell you that isn't true. You could, in fact, be god, the creator of everything, and everything that exists in this world is a form of your entertainment.

I don't think that's the case, but does anyone really KNOW anything?

This idea sounds similar to some sober ideas I've had:

This universe is very unreal, and the processes with which we observe the universe are developed to add stimulation. Happiness is the purpose of life if anything, because life really has no purpose but to continue a cycle of balanced energy flow throughout the universe.

That being said. Even if you exist as the only real conscious entity in this universe, that fact doesn't really matter regardless, as long as you continue this voyage towards happiness and understanding, because striving toward happiness and understanding are really the only good reason to continue existing, whether this world, this sober reality we live really is real or not, just a construction of your imagination, or a shared experience, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter because if nothing else exists, at least you do. and as long as you can still strive toward the understanding of a real world, then eventually you'll end up there, and time in this synthesized realm should be spent purely for your enjoyment.

Just don't dwell on it. It doesn't matter either way if it is or isn't real. Just keep playing the game.

thanks guys for your support. lol.

It's quite hard to explain how I felt, but the truth about me and my reality was the answer, it really felt like that information was a fact, not a opinion. I really felt that I was the one deciding to believe or not believe. And when I started to stop believe that its not me everywhere, everything felt as if they were gonna come back to me of some sort. It was a really strange feeling. Maybe that was my fear that took control once that realisation though. That I cant rule out.

Yes, the realisation was, this is all me everywhere, why should I believe it, its all me, and then I thought that because I found out, the world couldnt be anymore because well I'm creating my world, and if I know how to cheat, well the game is over. I will need to meditate and see where this is heading me. I'm on a big spiritual quest for a couple of month, trying to find my own truth and especially trying to not use any tricks from any religion. I want to find the truth by myself. What I realised seems to be one of the keys.

Yes, all we can do here is strive for hapiness. Yes we even can reach hapiness here, but for how long? You guys, or anyone, are just lucky to be able to be happy, because a lot of people or organism are not happy, they suffer. But thats how far I can go. I cant be satisfied entirely with life because my little individual is able to be happy, because I know damn well that I will sooner or later, suffer. But this brings me anywhere.

Yes, any other dimension is as unreal as the reality in which we are. Anything that we see is unreal because they dont show their real self. Any living thing is trying to survive in any dimension anywhere. Yes, everything is real, but when you start realising that everything is playing the same game that I play, which is TRYING to be something, well the truth was quite drastic. I dont want to play anymore, I want to be what I am, I dont want to be playing tricks, I cant play at all, its all me trying to play. We are playing yet we are never satisfied. You can eat me, I will eat you.

Anyways, Im happy in my life, but I am lucky to be. I'm one of the most sane person I know, with a real good relationship, good friends, ect. I am lucky for now, but in this game, I will suffer immensly.

We are all the same thing, in every person, every living species, we are the same thing inside, and so yeah, I felt that if I decided to stop playing, everything bout me would finally be what it really is, which is probably be the contrary that I am, a non believer.
I guess thats what I should do, not believe in bad intention from anyone, people or any living thing cant show their real nature because they think they have to survive there little life. truth is, we will always live something as long as we believe that we are indeed living something, buit maybe that when you stop believe what we live, because what we live is just me all the time, its only me, I am always alone. The whole universe is a big ME, never us, its only me in my experience. Maybe then, I will see or become what I really am. Can anyone pitch in what they think they are. I think that even the notiong of self is a illusion, and so I am probably nothing at all, nothing trying to be one maybe? Or I am everything trying to be a part of it rather then the whole? But there is not whole, there is no dimension, there is not reality, anywhere. This i what I know. All my life is just a creation. the more I learn, the more I create, the more I feel that I am, but its not the truth I fear. The truth is always that I am not, and I'm trying to be something different then myself. and be myself is probably do nothing, be nothing, believe in nothing, strive for nothing, because hapiness can not be reach totally, ever. yes we can but its gone fast and most importantly, being happy is a fantasm, its a imgaination. we imagine that we are happy. but are we really happy. How can we be happy to play alone?

I guess I will have to accept myself, that we all decide to live for better or for worse, and that I have no choice but to play. Maybe what I felt was my fear of beaing nothing, of dying. I dont claim that I'm sure what I felt was true, but I tried to told it as it felt like. I cant rule out that I may, with my psychadelic trip, find out that what I am is eternal and that theres no way out. however, the way I felt felt like a way out of me. It felt like I was finally awaken, looking at the sad truth that its all a illusion, and that I will have to stop sonner or later to believe in it becauese it can only brings falsness.

cheers

Edit: one thing I think I will try to do in hyperspace is stop to believe what I see,trying to see the real nature of it, just a thought, maybe someone in here could try to integrate it in their experience?



anyways