I have an advanced question that hopefully one of you chemists might be able to answer. Is Grammine pulled out with d-limonene? I have access to fresh Phalaris arundinacea and wanted to start working with the plant. I have read elsewhere that high PH might kill grammine, but I am not sure how reliable this information is. Also, is the grammine located mostly in the plant matter itself, or in the juice of the plant? Sorry if some of this has already been asked.

Much Thanks

"edit" so it seems that column chromatography would be the best way to isolate the dmt from the gramine?

Though I can't remember the post, I recently read that D-limo pulls very little Grammine. Do some searching on the threads for grass extractions and surely it will pop up eventually.

Thanks, I will look into that.

Merck indicates that Gramine is practically insoluble in petroleum ether. This would mean that the last step in SWIMs 'all natural no heat spice tek' would be great to seperate the gramine, never did that TEK with Phalaris but in theory... check it out.

After your extraction (doesnt have to be the all natural TEK, since it's kinda lot of work) try to dissolve your endproduct in hot petroleum ether. This will dissolve a lot of spice, but very little Gramine. Then pour off your hot petroleum ether. It will first push out any oils and theoretically also any gramine that might went into the hot PE. When it is cooled down to room temperature or you see crystals forming pour off again and put in the fridge overnight. Gramine-free snowglobes should be there to wish you a perfect day.

Never thought of it or looked it up since, but would be a great and easy way to get a gramine free Phalaris spice.

My idea for an easy gramine-free Phalaris TEK would be: (follow the first steps of preferred STB) Soak Phalaris in vinegar for 3 days. Add NaOH and Limonene on top. Stir and seperate Limonene and repeat twice. Pull out alks from the Limonene with vinegar. Seperate vinegar and add NaOH till an oil forms. Add PE on top and heat up the whole thing while stirring. Pour off your PE and let it cool down till oils are pushed out. Pour off again in a fresh container and put it in the fridge overnight.

Now I'm thinking, this TEK would also be great for gramine free stuff like MHRB. Instead of adding NaOH to your vinegar after pulling from Limonene, just add Ammonia and let it dry. Or like in SWIMs TEK, pour throught cloth which will absorb the oily parts, dry and extract in ETOH, use for changa or let that dry. Shouldn't that give an good smokable product?

But, if Gramine is indeed not soluble in Limonene, we SWIM could just follow the TEK above and have a more complete Phalaris extract, since with the PE you get very clear crystals.

Good Luck and inform us of results!

PS: The extraction step with hot PE can be repeated twice or so... use about 30 procent volume of the total amount of freebased vinegar solution.

Yeah phytonaut I think any of what you said could work. I found a bit strange the cloth to get the oil part, because I can imagine it getting messy, but if the oil indeed gets trapped in the cloth and if the cloth/ink isnt made of any material that will dissolve in the later solvent (ethanol or acetone or whatever), then it should work.

Nevertheless, I think from my preliminary tests I posted here ( https://www.dmt-nexus.me...&m=306212#post306212 ), gramine is probably not very soluble in limonene, and neither is hordenine, so just pulling with them and salting out should already be good separation. In any case, It would be nice to confirm it one more time with some gramine standard or some gramine containing grass.. When this is done I will share results.

The petroleum ether (which should be equivalent to naphtha) would make even more sure that there is no gramine, but if so, then I recommend at least redissolving in non-denatured ethanol or acetone and letting it evap again to help remove petrochem traces.

SWIM mostly distills the PE beforehand shortly and catches the most volatile part. This can be used cold to wash the still cold crystals after pouring off the first PE. Then let the crystals dry.

Nice, didn't see that thread. So simply a Limo pull!

Great work

The way is open

Thanks for all of the advice. I plan on juicing the reed canary grass and starting from there. I have read years ago that the young red shoots are the most potent, so I will start with a bucketful or two of those, and see what happens.

In summer there's usually higher dmt content. Read this amazing publication from Festi and Samorini (1994) for a lot of good info on phalaris alkaloid content and growth conditions:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...rum/resource.ashx?a=8255