Hey Guys! i recently bought some MHRB, and I have I think about 20g Aya red vine left over. I'm also ordering some p.harmala seeds because I dont think the amount of aya I have will quite do the trick. My methods of preparation though are unorthodox.
I'm thinking about doing a "cold" water extraction over about 24hrs, using a weak acid and hot water to start. Anyone think this will work? I'll throw the 20g aya in, 2-3g harmala seeds, and I'm thinking 8g MHRB? Thoughts? Will 24 hrs be long enough for a CWE? I'm thinking about maybe instead doing an alcohol extraction over a few days, combining with water, and boiling off the alcohol? Let me know what you think!

I think the acid may defeat the purpose of the CWE (retaining yuramamine?). However, I could be totally wrong.

To be honest, I think it is a waste of mimosa.

If you really want to go that route though you can it does seem to work for some people..but if you brew it you should not need 8g of mimosa unless you want a very high dose of oral DMT, which I would not suggest to someone inexperienced with this particular medicine.

Mimosa is just very sacred to me and I would hate to have to waste it with cold water teks like this that require more mimosa.

Same goes for caapi and rue.

I would use the herbal percolator(THP) method of Daggers personally if cold water was how I wanted to go..more complex and more work than just soaking though.

If you are going to soak it alcohol might pull more..but personally I would just brew it, I mean why not?

Well the purpose of the CWE, AFR is to avoid long cooking times. I've never heard of yamamine so I guess no loss?

Jamie, thats interesting! I would think someone would be griping about wasting chacruna or chaliponga instead of mimosa. I dont think the 24hr CWE will work very well either, I think I'm going to use alcohol, and use some eggwhite to remove some tannins when evaporating the alcohol. Trust me, if I could cook it for days I would

However, I would like to hear from thoes who have tried the CWE method. Anyone?

Brewing up mimosa is not a matter of cooking for days. It's cooking for hours. You'll be long done brewing your mimosa before the same amount would be ready from a CWE. I personally think that a CWE is a waste of material and is signaling either laziness or cooking somewhere you shouldn't be. Also, be careful with the caapi and rue seeds because 3g rue is already enough for full MAO inhibition for some people, so if you add in the 20g of caapi, you may be going a bit overboard, especially if you haven't used either one or the other very often.

Everyones so worried about wasting material, but really mimosa is dirt cheap compared to anything else...1$ a gram... and I only really need a couple fully entheogenic experiences a year. 6 times 4 is 32 dollars a year compared to 2 times 4 is 8 dollars a year. No biggie. Thats probably less than the ethane/electricity it costs to boil for 9+ hrs and Geener! Granted, the caapi is a different story, maybe I'll save that for when I have he opportunity to cook.

"I personally think that a CWE is a waste of material"

Have you done a CWE though? I'm unclear on whether its from experience or hearsay.

"You'll be long done brewing your mimosa before the same amount would be ready from a CWE."

The amount of time isnt the problem, its spending all of that time making sure my house doesnt burn down.

I'm not lazy, and my intentions as well as experience in journeying in general and with the vine is more than ample.

I agree with the rue though, I actually weighed the caapi, its 35 grams, so it would almost be enough for no rue. But the thing is, im planning on a reduction in extraction efficiency for the caapi w/ CWE, so i'll prob use 2g rue. Then again, I have zero RIMA tolerance.

No offense guys, but I'm pretty experienced, and when I'm not, I make sure I have as much information as possible about my endeavors short of firsthand experience.

I'm looking for the one or maybe two people on this board who have personally done a CWE with aya. How much did you use, how long was the soak, what did you use and how intense was it?

Thanks everyone!

Maybe I'll do a 24-36 hr soak starting with nearly boiling water, and boil afterwards for 3 hrs with new, clean water, and finally reduce. The mimosa I understand will require not-so-much cooking time, while the caapi is more stubborn. Any downside to combining the mimosa and the caapi? Will the mimosa bio-matter (not the spice) degrade to a disgusting and impossible to filter mess?

I've done CWE jurema plenty of times, mostly while on the road and not having access to stoves (brewing over a campfire can be a hassle). It makes it *slightly* easier to drink, supposing you soak it for less than 3 weeks. I've soaked it up to a month+. It is also the "traditional" method used to produce jurema brews by the indigenous people's of the caatinga, or the resurrected traditional way as these groups were basically stripped of their traditional culture during the earlier days of the conquest.

I've never found that I had to use more material if I use harmel as an admixture. I've never mixed CWE jurema with caapi, but imagine a similar case. It's just with jurema alone that the 40-100g doses are needed (never tried, myself). However, I do notice an experiential difference in the effects of boiled jurema with CWE jurema- the boiled acting like a very colorful admixture in violet and red with lots of dark polyhedrons and stained-glass images on the backs of my eyes, while CWE has in addition to that this whole ecstatic mental imagery thing going on with sometimes bronze-age, pre-chinese Asian themes for me... lots of mythic items, feathered dragons, extraterrestrial beings in elliptic pulsating tangerine caves, I once saw the entire universe based on the Qur'an - infinite concentric circle-planes with the Injeel singing praise for Allah in Arabic...

also, yuremamine... it's a relatively newly discovered phytoindole found in Mimosa hostilis that cannot be extracted using strong acids or bases. It has been speculated that yuremamine is responsible for cold-water extracts of jurema's apparent oral activity without MAOI. The two theories I've seen online are that it's either an MAOI itself, or that it acts as a prodrug for nn-DMT as the DMT moiety is present in its structure.


When I drink jurema, I prefer CWE. Laziness has nothing to do with it. I believe it to a superior method where mimosa is concerned. I believe, however, that it does in fact require much more material with caapi which isn't cost efficient if you pay 100 a kilo or whatever.

Hey thanks for all the info Aluminumfoilrobots. I was only vaguely aware that MHRB and Jurema are the same and were used traditionally by an african tribe. I was listening to a mckenna talk at the psychedelic salon website and he hinted at research that was being done in the 90's and would be published in the late 90's by botanists from australia about aboriginal use of DMT, which had been kept under wraps by the aboriginals until then. Its so nice to see the widespread use of these sacred plants and thier place in human history. hopefully ill never cease to find new examples.

But, my rant was not my only concern...

I didnt understand this...
"I've never found that I had to use more material if I use harmel as an admixture. I've never mixed CWE jurema with caapi, but imagine a similar case."
but then...
"When I drink jurema...it does in fact require much more material with caapi which isn't cost efficient if you pay 100 a kilo or whatever"

So how much Jurema are we talking here? Or rather, how much jurema would you use with harmel? (p.harmala?)
Also, how is the body load with the RIMA combo?

If I wanted to soak for say 5 days, what would be enough to get me going? Compared to 3 weeks? Do you start w/ hot water?

I read an erowid report about this, he used I think 6g Jurema, with 2 washes, each once per day, and ate w/ 3g rue. He aparently had some excellent visuals for about 40 minutes and subsided, but he claimed he saw the undescribable. Thats basicaly good enough for me but I'd hope it to be a bit longer. So I'm thinking 8g mimosa?

http://yatra.home.xs4all.nl/Jurema.htm

It is used in the caatinga, the dry north-eastern region of Brazil. The area's native population was enslaved, decimated, and stripped of the main corpus of their traditional religion and customs by the rubber industry. They were grouped together as mestizos, and it remained this way for some time. In the early 20th century (I believe...), the state governments made a law that said tribes that could show indigenous traditions would be "Indians" and given protection. The Jurema dance was one of these resurrected traditions. It is thought by some (Yatra and others) that a beta-carboline containing admixtue was in the original brew, but has since been lost. While this may be true, the brew as it stands apparently has some activity without MAOI, and it is speculated that yuremamine is responsible for this.

As to what you quoted:
I don't use more material if MAOI is involved. I was talking about CWE caapi, which apparently DOES require a much larger amount of material. I use about 6-12 grams of jurema, boiled or CWE'd. The only difference is in the nature of the effects. I don't know about the bodyload with harmel, it's just normal harmel slugishness...

5 days is probaby sufficient, but I would go with 2 weeks. 6 hours probably isn't enough, hence only 40 minutes of effects. It lasts 4-6 hours for me. Sometimes I start with hot water, sometimes not. I haven't noticed a difference.

6-12 grams is alot. 6 is like my upper limit when it comes to mimosa as admixture. Maybe you just need more mimosa though. Basically 6 grams brewed with harmalas would have me flying through hyperspace glued to the bed for a good few hours. Do you need that much when you brew mimosa as well?

I dunno, I've only so far used a single purveyor's rootbark and maybe it wasn't up to snuff. They were kindof shady, overpriced, and now seem to have disbanded their enterprise. I've got 5 kilos on the way from a well-known, highly reviewed brazillian vendor as we speak, so perhaps I will not need so much with their jurema. I've been extracting from that same rootbark I was using to brew and have so far pulled a little above .5% spice so far, thinking that will be the yield. So it wasn't the best out there, based on people pulling upwards of 2% from other purveyor's bark.

That's how much I used cooked or CWE'd.

aliendreamtime, can you post any relevant data regarding aboriginal use of dmt in Austailia?

As I understood, there was only speculation, stuff along the lines of "the art is trippy and the dreamtime sounds a lot like hyperspace...perhaps they had access to shrooms or dmt before conquest". To me, such speculation sure sounds promising. And I'm not trying to give you a hard time--but if there is anything more verified than rumour, I'd love to hear it. I've been thinking about the Aboriginis lately. The way their dot paintings, my spice related art and ayahuasca art from the amazon all bare resemblence...the way their language sounds a lot like my tryptamine influenced glossalalia.

I heard that same McKenna talk, I think he was referring to the various tryptamine-bearing Acacia's in australia, like Acacia maidenii and the like... I was interested as well, but have never been able to find anything else about it.

Great! Thanks for the advice guys. I'm reluctant to use only rue seeds but I think that'll be the case for this one, I'll save the caapi for a true brew. I guess I'll start with 4g mimosa to be safe and work up from there.

Sorry bedazzle, I havent found anymore info, but I havent looked either.

I wouldn't be reluctant to use harmel. He's a nice old goat, once you get to know him!

haha thanks AFR, I'll approach humbly like a neophyte to a crusty zen master as always

Just saying, if you want to get rid of tannins, put magnets unger the vessel and all the tannins will sink and you can decant off the liquids. it works for wine when u dont have time to age it

Wow that is awesome merthyn. Deffinately going to try that next time. Ingenious!

Oh and I want to clarify that I'm fairly ignorant lol and realized you only have to brew mimosa
for about 30 min washes for anyone new to the game reading this. Worked like a charm!

Why would that be? Are tannins somehow magnetic? Do they have some sort of metal in them?

I'm just confused as I've never heard of this before!