I want to tell a story about something that happened to me today in hopes that others will either be able to relate or will be stimulated by the experience.

I had been thinking about suicide over the past few weeks or so. This is mainly because I have a genuine belief that life continues after death; that consciousness, while currently bound and contained by my systematic brain, will diffuse into the surrounding matter as the system which previously contained it begins to break down. I don't propose that I'll be floating around like a ghost after death. Instead, I propose that the thing that is my consciousness would be required to undergo extreme and sudden alterations in state and form in order to be sustained by not-brain material. I don't think I can truly understand or imagine what it would be like to be conscious outside of a brain, but I imagine it would be much like the void experienced during certain psychedelic trips.

Anyways, I was driving back from home with my girlfriend today, and I was explaining my belief that consciousness does not end with physical death. I was explaining that my consciousness is currently trapped in a self-sustaining system that is humanity and human society. It's self-sustaining in that it is a system of control in which humans are programmed to comply with societal value norms of what is good and bad and what should make one happy or unhappy in what is defined by society as "life". I was explaining my belief that not only is suicide the ultimate unprogramming of the conscious mind, but it is also the ultimate means of retaliating against, and freeing one's self from, this system of value control. My girlfriend asked why I hadn't killed myself yet, and I responded that I hadn't done it because I suspected that she wouldn't understand and that she would be emotionally destroyed by it.

What happened next blew apart my sense of certainty regarding my own personal values. My girlfriend told me to crash the car. I asked her if she was serious and she told me again to crash the car and kill us both. I argued that it probably wouldn't kill us, but she insisted that it will kill us if I hit a tree. She was completely serious and seemed 100% ready to die. Needless to say, I didn't do it. When my girlfriend asked why I wouldn't do it, I told her that it must be that I have not adequately deprogrammed myself to the extent required to end this life that I am still obviously deeply invested in. The line from Terminator 2 came to mind, "I cannot self terminate". I love my girlfriend so much. Only a soul mate would push my values so far.

Anyways, It bothered me for the rest of the day. My whole bit about not being adequately deprogrammed was not quite convincing to me. It seems more likely that, somewhere deep down, I don't actually believe any of the things that I claim to believe. I think that, after being deprogrammed to a certain extent, you begin to realize that there's no difference between living and nonliving things, at which point the idea of dying shouldn't be a problem, theoretically. The fact that I couldn't bring myself to crash the car indicates that I'm still holding on to that distinction. I was falling back into that sinkhole of nihilism where I once believed I was never conscious to begin with. I'm disheartened. The experiences I've had with psychedelic drugs have meant so much to me and have changed me so much, or at least I thought they had. I don't know what the point of psychedelic drugs is anymore if I can't truly believe the insights that they seem to provide.

I'm reminded of Hamlet's soliloquy:

This realization saved your life, and your girlfriends.

I do not think it is wise to think you have something as unknowable as death figured out.

Enjoy life while you can. It will happen when it happens. No need to rush it.

As you've clearly realized, beliefs such as this can be a very dangerous things. Don't believe everything you think on psychedelics.
Hell, don't believe ANYTHING at all. Keep an open mind.

I'm just glad you're still with us.


P.S. It's not the psychedelics telling you these things, it's YOU on these psychedelics. Be careful what you wish for.

i have had friends that have felt this way and sons of friends that have felt this way..like why not , i just don,t care anymore..because of what i do .. i have been able to take them to a place where there wish could come true quickly! and ever single time they made a quick decision to live! to think you know what death holds is just a mistake.You DON,! but you do know this for a fact.. everytime your feet hit the floor.. you have been given a wonderful gift to change your life or someone elses.. my friend i hope you understand this in it,s pure form.. i do believe life goes on.. BUT i know how much of a gift i have been givin! if you are this sad about life..then have the strengh and courage to change it!! and the courage to change someone elses... i have been in some of the most extream cold. and found it killing me.. it kills like a kiss from your mother slow and gental.. it scares me the most... please celebrate the great gift you have been givin. everyday you wake up... too many people do not get the chance... besides? dont you have that one great thing you want to do for this world before you check out?? get to work my friend! get to work1.... much love ODEN<3

I have to echo what House said here. A flawless response really.

Time changes everything. Stick around a while, even if you and you're loved one believe you have the 'answer' and are ready to go. That is only another temporary construct of mind. Not a reason to hit the ground running into something that cannot be undone. The past and death are the only things that appear to be carved in stone. Everything else has so much room for change, including philosophical beliefs.

One thing I have found to be held constant aside from change, is that there are no 'answers'. We can only guess or imply. Often we rationalize things on the spines of something else. If that's how we feel. Rationalizations are not truths however. Which brings me to ask you to dig into yourself and find the real roots(beyond rationalizations) for your desire's to abort this life?

There's always a rationalization in my experience. Though there's never been a truth to inspire these feelings/ideas.

Wishing you and your's the absolute best, hang around for a while. Come visit us in the Chat sometime if you and/or you're loved one want to talk . Sorry if this post is incoherent, not the best at this type of thing.

Loving you.

I find these to be very peculiar and strange insights to be gleamed from psychedelics. After suffering from serious depression for a vast number of years and trying wholeheartedly to snuff myself out more than once, I found my beliefs shattered by the simple fact that try as I might, it just didn't work. A few years later, about a year and a half ago, one of my brothers commited suicide and this was incredibly difficult on my whole family. He left behind two beautiful girls and a very large family by commiting what I feel is one of the most selfish acts one can commit - even coming from someone who made tried very hard themselves. This shook me to the core and I truly understood the impact of such a decision and how selfish it truly can be.

My brother suffered from depression and battled drug addiction for many years as I did myself. I only wish that someone could have shown him that it doesn't always have to hurt. At that time I had no clue. We lived on oppisite sides of the counrty and only saw each other once or twice a year, but I still considered us to be close. Through his death our family has never been closer and this has been one of the blessings that has come from such a tragedy.

The problem with suicide is that it's not really an answer to anything, nor do I believe that it is the ultimate retaliation to free oneself from this systems norms. Suicide affects more people than you will ever know. If you want to rebel against the norms of this society then do something great. Show love and compassion to every single person you meet. Be humble, kind, and courageous. Fight for a cause woth fighting for. Killing yourself just does not do any of thses things. Killing yourself only leads people to assume whatever they want to assume.

I fully believe that each and every person has a purpose in this universe. It is what our soul is meant to do and when we find out what that purpose is and start doing it, the universe will take care of and reward us in ways we could havee never imagined. Unfortunately, especially in America, we have no real system in place to help us to become adults in this sense. No rites of passage, which are so commonplace among most indigenous people of the world. Thus, we have no elders to guide us.

A while back I came across a book called "Soulcraft" and this was the main idea explored throughout the book. Some indigenous people go on spirit walks, some use Iboga, for me it was Aya that brought me in touch with my soul and has shown me how to put other people in touch with their souls. To discover their true purpose and be able to live and enjoy life on a whole new level.

Much love my friend.

It sounds to me like you have been misguided in your quest for knowledge and I am glad that you are still here with us to share and relate your experience.

Believe me you came here for a reason. You will die whenever you're finished here. You don't need to kill yourself, trust me you will die.

I think over billion people on this planet believe in life after death, but that's not a reason to kill oneself. If one is interested to see beyond this reality one can smoke DMT. But dear hixidom, where you think you came from to this life? If you are interested in the questions of life and death, you might want to study the views of different cultures about it and think about it. The most absurd thing I have heard on this board is thinking about suicide just to see what is there after death. We will all die, so what is the rush? In eternity, human age is like fraction of a second. If you are interested in this matter of "beyond", you should probably get proper vaporization tools and explore DMT, I think it will answer your questions much better than just thinking about death with your mind. Relax and be glad for the life you have
And BTW, I am not the only one on this board who has felt "death" on DMT. So if you ask for that experience and really want to know about it, maybe it will show you death, luckily for 20 minutes, altough it might seem like much longer. Relax and enjoy life, don't analyze or stess about it, for your own good. And you will see how good it is to be on this beautiful planet. If you feel like it, maybe you should go for a day or two to your nearest natural place, such as forest and enjoy the divine beauty in everything, maybe even with the assistance of the holy DMT.

In Hamlet's soliloquy, he is saying that men are cowards for prolonging the pains of this life instead of just pushing forward to the next life. I'm just thinking about the ultimate trip. I don't think my reluctance to end this life is any different from pre-flight anxiety.

I'm just trying to point out that I was a hypocrite before that experience yesterday, and if I weren't forced to confront suicide, I would not have realized that my beliefs didn't coincide with my actions. None of your posts were particularly helpful either because you all assumed that I am depressed or that I hate life or that DMT will force me to embrace life (as though I don't already embrace life AND smoke DMT). My point is that I don't see suicide as forsaking life or even as ending it because I don't believe in death, and yet I'm afraid of it for some reason. All of us who don't believe in death and yet are not able to go through with suicide when the opportunity presents itself: We must all be hypocrites. That is my point.

You want to be deprogrammed from what, may i ask?

Testing this hypothesis is hubristic at best, and tragic at worst: "for in that sleep of death what dreams may come... Must give us pause." You neglect to consider that Hamlet is at the precipice of madness, rage and despair when he utters this famous soliloquy - not idly pondering whether his navel is real or not.

I do understand your drive - hell, I am curious in this way too. However, as has been stated here, what's the rush ? I GUARANTEE it will happen to you, and most likely in a way that will cause the least collateral damage. It is reasonable to assume that we have only this life, so if you are not depressed or despairing, what's your rush? And there is no shame in listening to your basest instinct to survive.

We have NO WAY of EVER knowing what REAL is, or what lies after death. All hypotheses are based on suppositions from within the set, of what said set is in its totality (living reality) and what lies beyond the set (death). AS sure as you think you are that you are right, you are unequipped to know for certain, and the odds are stacked so incredibly against anything you could possibly imagine... So play it out. Enjoy it. It's only a blip, then you're gone, so why cut the blip shorter than it already is just as an intellectual experiment? One day you'll know. Till then, there's the SHOW - and how grand it is our SHOW, so jump on stage and scribe your own soliloquy!

JBArk

I don´t think that´s a fair assesement.

Life is quite a big thing. A bigger thing than all of our personal theories and speculations about it.

Hi hixidom

It seems to me that you are primarily concerned about being a hypocrite. I can relate to this very much, I know what it feels like to have, what I considered, my beliefs, my 'strict set' of values and principles shattered before my eyes and have to start facing up to the fact that I truly didn't feel strongly about these things as I had previously believed.

But my friend, if there is anything that psychedelics, and the community here at the nexus, have taught me is that any paradigm shattering and profound experiences - be it psychedelic, a near death experience, mental breakdown, death of a loved one, facing your darkest fears etc- one must integrate and reflect a great deal.

Realisations like thiss can make you feel like you were a hypocrite, sure, but there's nothing wrong with that. You're a human being; you make mistakes, you learn, you adapt, you move on.

You do not believe in death yet you are afraid of it for some reason. I think when you have a serious belief in something like this, the question you must ask yourself is "what if I am wrong?". If you're right in your belief, then there is certainly no hurry to get this part of your existence over and done with as soon as possible - you will die one day. Don't forget to stop and smell the roses, make the most of this unique experience we call human life, share knowledge, love and laughter. Protect our planet which has brought us to be here, it existed long before we did and will continue to live long after we're gone.



Life is to be lived.

If you are wrong, however... your tragic senseless death would devastate and haunt the lives of your loved ones, your friends and family who would forever wonder 'why?'.

Maybe your thoughts for suicide are not only linked with your desire to know what the after death experience is like? I think you may need to ask what your intentions really are; empirically observe the things that have happened in your life, what is happening now and where you are headed.

One more thing, friend. You say:



Would you kill? Is the killing of another conscious being forsaking life, ending it?

Peace, love and gratitude.

Thank you so much for all of your input. I'm sorry for being so bitchy earlier. I think I just need to loosen up. I finished my last exam of the semester today. I'm sure that had something to do with it.


Right.



So true. What is the rush indeed!


Yes!

Thanks for your post freeradicals.

Thanks guys, for helping me learn and adapt and move on. I've got a lot to learn about what this whole experience is, and I'll probably never figure it out, but it's fun to try, and I should be thankful that, at times when I think I've got it all figured out, there are people like my girlfriend and you guys and drugs like DMT to throw a wrench in the whole thing. It's times like that that I need to remember to keep my ego in check, because confidence that we have all the answers is dangerous.

Mind can play tricks on people, at those times one should try to listen to your heart.

Even if it's like you portray it to be, there is still this realm of consciousness to be explored for as long as it feels right. Does it feel right to you? Yes, othherwise you'd be dead now.

Continue with your life and be happy.

PS: Your girlfriend is awesome.

Exactly

In accordance with what most people here responded with.


Killing you is Death's Job; Don't worry about it.
Death doesn't need any help. It's doing fine.
Just live your live and try enjoying it whenever you can.
Death is garuanteed; it will defenitely catch up with you
one day. Your job is to give meaning to your existance
untill that unavoidable day comes.

And what comes after physical death no one knows. And nobody lives to
tell about it either Only time will tell us, one individual at a time.
Live your life the best you can. Try adding as much positive influence to
this world as you possibly can before your physical body expires.

I am a believer in re-incarnation however, I have always been taught that the one who ends their own incarnation on purpose must repeat their incarnation until they understand the messages being taught..

Seeing the world as a self-sustaining system that you're trapped in is only one way of looking at it. Try changing your focus to things that fascinate, stimulate, and inspire you. Believe me, there's all kinds of awesome shit happening all the time on this planet, but you have to at least be open to it and run with it when you can. Remember how fucking cool you are and how many gifts you've been given.

It's not always easy to wake up every day and keep going with something that seems pointless, but life would suck if it was easy and be incomplete if it didn't have problems. I hate a lot of the systems in place today, but I try to see them as catalysts for people to change and evolve, to come up with more creative and long-lasting solutions. There is a light at the end of the tunnel that is this life, and you'll be missing out on some really amazing things if you drop out early.

I don't believe in death either. I think everything is eternal. But I also think we're here for a reason, and my intuition tells me that if we purposely leave before it's our time, then in our next form we'll be confronted with the same kinds of problems we tried to avoid here, not to mention we'll get the ass-kicking of a lifetime from the ninjas of karma. Plus, as some of your psychedelic journeys have probably shown you, we're all connected. You affect the entire universe with each of your actions. If you went through with the horrifying action of suicide, it would hurt everywhere. I don't even know you, and probably most of the others who replied here don't either, but look how much we care about you sticking around and continuing on this journey with us. I'm sure all of your friends and family feel that same thing times a million.

Killing yourself would take a lot, but if you're "brave" enough to carry that out, then think of what that bravery could do if you used it for loving and playful things. We need people who dare to be bold like that, so give it a shot, eh?

Oh, and I just came across these nuggets while browsing youtube, and I thought they applied: http://www.youtube.com/w...NhQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/w...Zxvk&feature=relmfu