Obviously I'm not advocating that DMT be given to children.

But in a religious context, it already is. Santo Daime children in Brazil drink during the ceremony along with the adults. In terms of the social rather than physical side of things, I have also heard of a similar situation where parents in peyote religions give sacrament to children. Is this healthy?

This practice may make a Westerner feel uncomfortable. However, I can imagine that it might be healthy if done responsibly. Alcohol is one of the Christian sacraments, generally in the form of red wine, and is also used recreationally by most Westerners. Parents in countries such as France give their children small quantities of wine with a meal, which fosters a responsible and social attitude, backed up by their culture in general. Contrast that to a culture such as in England, where this doesn't happen so much and kids get blasted as soon as they're old enough for a fake ID. Of course, a teenager brought up in France whose family then move to England may well succumb to the English binge drinking culture (I don't know if this would happen or not as a general rule).

On the other hand, giving children DMT might be child abuse, if DMT affect the chemistry of their developing brains permanently (the same goes with alcohol and peyote etc). But for all I know, maybe even a full dose of ayawaska could be physically safe (although would a child be able to process the visions mentally without panicking?).

What if a religion had a sacrament of smoked DMT? Would it be safe to give children a tiny puff for a weak threshold experience? Seems like thin ice here, the dosing would be problematic and the child may experience full hyperspace (only bad if that's unhealthy for a child physically or psychologically). Perhaps in this instance, the sacrament should be first introduced for initiation into adulthood, such as the babongo tribe do with iboga. Perhaps this abstention until adult initiation should occur whatever the method of consumption, smoked or drunk.

Why not make it more controversial?

Rectal administration of dmt to children

But anyway, if a hypothetical society and its values are centered around dmt, it would make sense that children are exposed to it from a young age. Just like the christian communion or like the other examples you mentioned. I can thing of much worse things children are subjected to as part of their "initiation" to our society, such as cruelly making them feel guilty about their emotions and/or actions.

But everything in moderation, maybe start with harmala alkaloids alone first, then move to the combos?

No, no, no, no!

I DO NOT think it's a good idea to give drugs of any form to devloping minds and bodies!

Some tribes in the Amazon dose their newborns with brugmansia! Don't tell me thats not fucked up!



This I totally agree with... we have no coming of age ceromony in our society besides getting really drunk, fucking somebody (usually not a good thing in the end), driving/wrecking a car and fighting somebody... that's about it... Maybe prom? Goddamn prom! I fucking hated prom!

I think we need coming of age milestones in childrens lives, but I still don't think they should take psychoactives until they are 17-19, and then they have a huge entheogenic coming of age festival were they become a man or woman and are no longer a child.

if i had only been that lucky

I think it should be given to young adults. Like Coatl said, 17-19. Also, until then I don't believe children should be subjected to any beliefs regarding entheogens either. Not until they're at least old enough to think for themselves. Once their rebellious teenagers, I say. Otherwise, you'd be as bad as the Christians. I resent the parents that raise their children to be Christians. It makes it hard for them to question it. It makes their beliefs hollow and insincere.

lol, had to laugh at that



so this shaman I made some rituals with was telling me about how he took his first time when he was 5 years old. His parents didnt let him, obviously (they usually take first time as adolescent, appart from maybe a drop when they are born or sick or smt). So one night he went hidden to a big pot of aya that they were storing for a ritual the next day, and drank a couple of glasses, and totally went off to hyperspace... He doesnt remember anything, only when he woke up the whole village was around him, checking how he was, singing and making these 'protective' rituals and moves

from then on, his dad, which was a major shaman, started to slowly apprentice him. When he was 12 years old they let him take a big dose again, and his dad said: "ok, so you want to be a shaman? so today you lead the ritual". And this was a ritual with only the elders of the tribe. So he was intuitively doing what he thought he should, had loads of visions and 'received' a few songs. In the end they accepted him to continue his shaman path.


(bit off topic but thought it was an interesting story)


Anyways, I dont think that its necessary for kids to take psychedelics. Not to say it is a bad thing, but I just think its unnecessary. I think teenage is a good age for it, because with a propper context, it can serve as a 'safe rope' that helps teenagers pass through this troubled time. I remember reading somewhere about some parent that giving his teenage son ayahuasca was a good way to prevent against drug use

there is a published paper out there about psychological and neurological tests on teenagers that took ayahuasca regularly and they were not worse than controls in any measure, even better in some measures.

Hehe, yes rectal's much better because the smoke may damage their little lungs

This question is entirely hypothetical, don't worry! But a good topic I thought, because of a picture I saw of a little Brazilian girl drinking a BIG cup of ayawaska at church.
I personally believe in full initiation at an age where the child reaches adulthood (what age this is, I don't know, but yes during teenage years) and is given the choice to take or not to take, at least for smoking DMT. For drinking, sure they could just have a tiny sip, just like how kids like to have a glass with a teeny bit of champagne in it at family celebrations, just to feel part of the group. I agree that children don't need hallucinogens. They haven't lost their imagination or wonder yet. Endlessness, can you remember the title of this paper, I'd be interested to read it?

sure, here

http://www.erowid.org/re...s/refs_view.php?ID=6733

http://www.erowid.org/re...s/refs_view.php?ID=6734

http://www.erowid.org/re...eira_E&SField=Author

Awesome, thanks. How much do Santo Daime and UDV give to kids? Because the kid in the picture had a big cup, and she looked about 10 years old.

I guess it depends on age, on the person's history inside the doctrine, etc... When I went to santo daime I didnt see kids taking.. but the person who serves the drink looks at each person and chooses an amount. This is obviously subject to mistakes, but in general they do know the people that shouldnt take much, the ones that need more, etc.

I dont think children take in general as much as the adults, they for sure take less. But there must be some kids that in some cases do take a bigger dose

I think a child should be feed the best organic food and not ingest psychoactives of any form until they reach at least 17.

^^While I don't think there is a heavy risk in terms of brain development, phsyically there could always be a psychological risk. But then again this society is built around consuming these substances so the psychological risk in minimized. Regardless I don't think there is a specific age when people are able to handle drugs. It varies from person to person. Therefore its up to the parents and community.

In rastafarian churches kids are blazing up tough. SWIM started doing acid when was 16 and he turned out just fine :arrow:

Hehe my foaf did acid actually AT school when he was 17... got cornered by a teacher and had to act straight while wanting to peel him out of the way like the wafer-thin paper-person he was! But he never took it again so can't judge it's healthiness. He has noticed that peers who did a lot of that and other things seemed a bit twitchy as they grew older, slight nervous twitches on their face or limbs, as if one or more of what they'd been enjoying had affected their nervous system somehow... don't know what substance to blame.

Foaf's against weed for kids, he was 13 when he first did it. It saps energy a bit and isn't great for memory for learning. This thread's meant to be more about DMT's effect on children though so maybe this is a bit off-topic... don't know how it works here.

My mother ate shrooms while I was in the womb.
Hmm wonder why I like shrooms so much and have a general high tolerance towards psychedelics

Note I am not advocating what she did or judging it either, its just what happened.

Somewhere on youtube thereis a really good speach on jsut this topic from Allyson Grey wife(alex's wife), anyways heres the link ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGUCJHDw6Jo&feature=related