So, swim has just received some 10mg propanolol, a beta blocker used to treat high blood pressure. Swim has slightly elevated bp normally, and while its not enough for him to warrant daily beta blocker usage, he knows his bp elevates when he uses phenethylamines such as mescaline and a select few RC's.

In the interest of body load and harm reduction, he wonders if he could use a low dose (10mg) of propanolol safely to reduce some of the body load associated with these substances. He has attempted to do some googling in this regard, but theres not alot of good info. Does anyone have any information as to the safety of combining propanolol with phenethylamines?

thanks-

I myself am also very interested in using propanolol for high blood pressure with other compounds as well as for opiate withdrawal. I know Benzyme has told me a good deal on using it, I hope someone can possibly chime in and be able to tell us more. I'm not too keen on Pharmaceutical drugs.

Here's what I know. I have taken propanalol before, and yes it works very effectively for high BP. Don't get in the habit of taking it though, if you don't have high BP normally. It can has some unwanted side effects.

I haven't done this but I think it could be effective for reducing BP on phenthylamines. I know from my experience that it reduces BP when you smoke marijuana, which usually raises BP.

As for opiate withdrawal, I don't have personal experience on this, but I have heard it is relaxing and can take the edge off when you're withdrawing from opiates, probably better for mild withdrawals.

During withdrawals their is a large influx of Dopamine, so blood pressure gets really high, uncomfortably for me so I was considering it for that reason.

I've used propanolol sporadically in the past to control essential tremor. In my case, the decrease of blood pressure was a side effect, but undoubtedly it works. The only bad interactions I am aware of happen with other chemicals that lower blood tension and heart rate.

I stopped using it after a few tries because 1) My case was not severe, and I didn't want to start taking the drug on a daily basis if I could deal with the symptoms in other way; and 2) I disliked both the dry feeling in mucous membranes (eyes, mouth mostly) and the occasional sleepiness it brought along.

I have heard its long term use can contribute to developing type 2 diabetes, so it's a drug I would advise using when convenient, but not chronically, if possible. Regarding specific interactions with phenetylamines, I am not aware of any. So if you guys think it might come handy, give it a try.

I was under the assumption, and with a little googling backs this up, that cannabis lowers blood pressure. Something to do with cbd directly affecting the veins causing them to expand. However, tachycardia is another main affect of cannabis, and this also affects your bp in a way. I've heard someone somewhere on the internet say its akin to switching down a gear in your car or something like that.

I think the tachycardia from thc dominant strains, could cause hbp in those predisposed to it. However I'm pretty sure, and this goes along with my experience as well, that bp is lowered as long as you don't have a thc induced panic attack, or consume lots of cbd lacking herb.

But that's all a little off topic for this thread .

thanks for all the replys btw, lots of good info.

Lowers blood pressure but elevates pulse rate.

I was thinking last night, about how certain natural herbs/plants, like lemon oil and caocao have uses to reduce bodyload and vasoconstriction with certain compounds. Vasoconstriction is definitely an issue with me, especially with phenethylamines. I feel like some cacoa for vasodialiation, lemon essential oil for 5-ht3 antagonsism/nausea control, and a low dose propanolol could all be useful and effective techniques to counteract some of the uncomfortableness caused by unwanted 5-htx receptor agonism, most notably 5ht3 for nausea, and 5htb for cardiovascular affects. This is all relative to the binding profiles of the compounds in question however, and not all phens or trypts may require all (or any) of the above techniques. As well, caution must be taken when combining these compounds and must be done so in low doses at first to gauge interactions. Basically, we're gonna have to shulgin it.

It will be cool though, if eventually there could be a special mix you could take, to reduce or eliminate the body-load or uncomfortableness associated with some psychedelics. Custom tuned to block certain receptors or interact with them on some level, reducing the negative affects caused by the drug you are taking doing something to that particular receptor. Lot of fine tuning would be required though. Also, if a certain combo makes you less aware of the negative body-load, but its affects are still present, this could become dangerous with higher doses where one would usually not go, except for the reduction in body-load. Kind of like if you are taking a psychedelic PEA, that exhibits stimulating affects, but you take something that makes it seem less stimulating. But it still exhibits stress on your heart/cardiovascular system. That would be a dangerous scenario where it wouldn't feel dangerous, but certainly is.

As well, some people don't necessarily think nausea associated with serotonegenics is a bad thing, and has a use. I've heard someone on a forum somewhere taking about the cactus purge. They said something along the lines of that purge has to send a hit of something to the brain for sure. Perhaps this is a useful element of the drug itself, and being that serotonin/its receptors in the gut are partly responsible for mediating vomiting/diarrhea, i tend to agree.

But for some compounds there are negative body affects that are just that to some people, and reducing them could greatly increase the overall usefulness of a compound imho.

BTW- i tried this with a low 80mg dose of mescaline, 10mg of propanolol that is, and it seemed to help with the albeit slight body load present. But really 80mg of mescaline presents very little body load anyway, it was just to make sure a low dose would present little/no interactions.

the use of propranolol to combat body load from phenethylamines is nothing new. it was a common practice reported in the early 90's alt-drugs newsgroup from hyperreal, the classic rave website, long before erowid was around.

Very interesting, can you tell me more?