Hey guys.

So in my original introduction essay I talked about an important issue I was having which was never really resolved. I didn't know nearly as much about the issue then as I think I do now so I'll save you the useless information and give as brief of an explanation of my current dilemma as I can.

Around January of this year, I began working with DMT. I had many amazing experiences, many of which have helped me tremendously. But there was one or two extremely difficult experiences that stood out from the rest. I came away from them feeling mentally scarred and traumatized. Moreso then any experience I've had with any other entheogen. I stayed positive and tried to move past them. A few days later I smoked some cannabis, as I often would. Only this time, a couple minutes after smoking it, I felt an unbearable amount of anxiety and despair come over me. It felt very similar in feeling and intensity to the anxiety one gets during a difficult spice journey. It subsided about a minute later, then returned a couple minutes after. It came in these awful uncontrollable waves. I cannot stress how terrifying these felt. I thought I had started to develop some form of cannabis-induced schizophrenia or that I was being spiritually attacked or something. These waves of terror came consistently for several days until I was able to visit a doctor. I talked with him very briefly, and he thought I was having panic attacks. I too kept telling myself that's what these waves were, and tried dealing with it naturally day by day with the help of friends and family and meditation.

Several months later, these waves have gradually lessened in frequency and intensity. They now mainly only come in moments of stress or if I anticipate them happening. This seems all well and good, but I fear that I may just be burying the issue rather then dealing with it. I also no longer think these are panic attacks at all, or at least they don't feel like any panic attacks I've read or heard about. There are no physical symptoms whatsoever and they have never lasted longer then a minute or two. I've begun to theorize that what I may have is a minor case of PTSD from traumatic DMT experiences and cannabis brought it to the surface, but at the same time it feels like it could be some sort of spiritual crysis.

Since the beginning, I have strangely felt this was connected to DMT. Interestingly, I recently smelled a DMT vial I found lying around. Just from smelling it, I was immediately thrown into one of the most intense waves of stress and anxiety I have had yet. To me this showed that there must be a mental connection with all of this to spice. Of course, I could be wrong.

So my question is, how should I deal with this? I believe if I just kept doing what I'm doing then over time this would subside to almost nothing, but like I said, I'm scared I may just be burying the issue. I have not worked with cannabis or any other psychedelics ever since the initial "attack". I have really wanted to, knowing how much they have helped me in my life, but this whole thing has kept me from doing so in fear of my now fragile emotions destroying whatever experience I may have. I have thought that maybe a low dose mushroom experience may help me deal with this, or perhaps ayahuasca, in case this is a spiritual matter, but haven't been able to bring myself to do either. I have also considered self MDMA therapy having heard that it can help PTSD, if that is in fact what I have. What do you guys think?

I apologize for such a long post, and asking virtually the same question once again. It is very important to me that this is resolved and I feel that if anyone would know how to help me it would be someone here on the nexus. I realize my explanation is fairly vague, and I am willing to answer any questions anyone may have. Any helpful feedback given would be more appreciated then I can possibly express. Thanks in advance for your time guys.

Well from what I'm read it may be a form of PTSD but it also sounds a lot like conditioned associative anxiety (non the technical term)
PTSD is simply a severe anxiety disorder and I'm not so sure it is that or else you might have fears like you might inhale smoke from the person next to you and you will just have a super low tolerance due to your anxiety and get trapped in the same bad trip but FOREVER.
The above sounds more like bad-trip routed PTSD, I'd guess your is just bad anxiety.

I do know an awful lot about anxiety and though I could write out a whole thing just for you... it is 4:30 in the morning and I was actually planning on cleaning a bit cause I woke up in the middle of the night with a surprising amount of energy (I planned it, but lets not get into that)

Below is a post I put on a thread about pre-flight anxiety which should give you some strategies to work with your issues (FYI, I assure you I have lots too, why else would I know so much about anxiety) and if you have additional questions specific to your situation then just post a questing-reply.

Thank-you very much for the tips, although my issue isn't so much dealing with the anxiety when it happens as it is stopping the anxiety from happening in the first place. I've gotten quite good at evading it when it happens actually. It doesn't make me think irrationally or anything because there is nothing to be irrational about but the anxiety itself. It also happens mainly when I think about it happening or "challenge" it in a sense. You see, even right now I feel like I'm fine and there's nothing wrong with me. I hardly even remember what the terror feels like. So sometimes I'll challenge it to see if it even exists anymore or if I can overcome it. Then it comes on and I remember the terror and I immediately regret trying to face it so I distract my thoughts from thinking about it until it goes away. It's hard to explain. I don't like personifying it as not to give it more power, but it is almost like some sort of evil entity is trying to make me feel powerless against it. I'm not saying I believe it is this necessarily, but I thought it might help explain how I feel in my situation.

Yes I know exactly what you mean.

But anxiety, like depression has a REALLY nasty effect. It make you COMPLETELY unable to think about not feeling anxious or depressed when you are experiencing it (at a certain strength or greater)
Because of that when you are feeling anxious the irrational thoughts FLOURISH and seem rational.
Evading it is something I did for a long time but pushing the thoughts away and distracting yourself from them is not going to fix the anxiety at all, it will stay the same if you do that.
You need to speak the rational truth against the irrational thoughts (out loud and slowly/calmly is 10x more effective than just thinking, a scientifically review fact)

I assure you this is not an evil entity, it is anxiety.
I have been so anxious that I thought if I went out of my room to take a piss my brother, who had never said anything mean to me in 23 years would laugh at me and make fun of the fact that I was using GHB despite the fact that we have thoroughly discussed the fact that not only is he addicted to many things 10x worse than me but that he would never judge my drug use EVER. So I locked my door and pissed in a bottle all night. I've never shat in a bottle but I would sneak out after peaking through the window and tip-toe past his door, only if it was shut, or else I'd hold it in until he shut it. Then guilty like I had just killed someone with every bodily noise sit tortured with anxiety with just going to the bathroom.

Anxiety can truly make you feel hopeless an worthless and for some, suicidal. IN THE MOMENT though. When it is not present then you can think rationally but it is a pathological liar which takes hold of your state of mind and can feel like an evil entity, I know. But it is just nasty anxiety.

I highly recommend you give the first method a try for a minimum of 14 trips (including pot) and I am 100% confident you will see results. This method of Cognitive-Behavioral therapy helps 70% (I believe) get over their social anxiety which happens EVERY DAY to people nearly 100%. I have gotten over my social anxiety about 65-70% already using that method and others.

I have not pissed in a bottle in 2 months... I used to do it 2-3 times a day when I was in a dark time anxiety-wise for 3-4 months.

I understand that pushing it away is only temporary, and that's why I asked for help. You do seem quite experienced with anxiety and it does seem you understand alot of aspects of my situation, but it is different. In your case, when you're not anxious you know that the things you get anxious about are irrational. In my case, anxious or not, I know the only thing I get anxious about is being anxious, if that makes sense. How am I supposed to face this? I can't just tell myself I'm feeling like this for no reason, because there could be a reason. As an extreme example, it could be schizophrenia or some other serious mental illness and if I dive into it thinking its nothing it could make it worse. Perhaps it's a natural reaction for my mind to avoid thinking about it to avoid further damage. Is this thought pattern really that irrational?

Again, I apologize for probably sounding extremely vague. This is really hard to explain and I got zero hours of sleep last night (unrelated to anxiety).

Ask as many questions as you need and I'll try to be as clear as I can.

Also, I haven't used any psychedelics in months, but when I do decide to use them I'm sure your tips will come in handy.

Oh, I know that.

Just for quick typing I'll use the jargon
ANT = Automatic Negative thinking/thought(s)
ART = Automatic Rational thinking/thought(s)
RATS = RATional Statements

So the first thing I should say is that this is something I have experienced EXACTLY the same as you, just about different things.

So ANTs are automatic they are just there and they pop into your mind without you trying or wanting them to. It seems like you are in a mild or moderate state of anxiety while reading this because if you were not then you definitely would have accepted my recommendation due to it's clear rationality. What happens AT FIRST when you try to challenge the ANTs with RATS is more ANTs come, MORE AND MORE until you are symbolically standing over an ANT-hill. Like it said in the quote. State the rational thought then DISTRACT yourself with something before coming back to it.

The ANTs really put on the pressure as you read my last post and this has happened to me before. No the thoughts are not completely irrational but they are EXAGGERATED, EXCESSIVELY NEGATIVE, INNACCURATE, and most of all WORST CASE SCENARIO thoughts and are accompanied with negative emotions too which make them worse.

I know that in such a state it is hard or impossible to imagine anything working and if you feel just distracting yourself until it settles before combating the ANTs with RATS with something, anything then that would be totally fine.

This is a process that takes 45-50 days to become completely effective though significant results in a week or even less are totally possible. Every time you successfully refute an ANT with RATS you are changing the neuro-pathways in your brain and step by step by step the RATS with transform the ANTs into ART.
While the jargon is simplistic and like a story, this is scientific peer-reviewed stuff just in a "for dummies" format. The audiobooks that I got this stuff from uses this terminology, well I added RATS and ART but they use ANTs and ANT-hills tons.

So if it really seems like the ANTs are hard to pick any holes in and combat it with RATS then use something generic for any ANT.
"The thoughts that I am having are negative lies about the worst-case-scenario. I know they are ANTs because they are making me feel anxious, rational thoughts don't do that. No matter how right they may seem they are exaggerated negative thoughts and I am not going to listen to them." then go into a distraction. Hum a song, take a walk, do some cleaning, anything but listen to the thoughts.

Here is something from the program it is "The ANTs handout" and though it is for social anxiety you can edit it for your circumstance. It is directed at the ANTs not you and is very strongly worded and it is said the be the most powerful technique in overcoming anxiety out there.
The audiobook give the listener excercises and one of them is from the 3rd tape to the 13th tape (1 tape a week) to read this out-loud EVERY SINGLE DAY.
http://www.mediafire.com/?59t1hz1c54yxp74
I have been doing it for a week and a half and it has become so crystal clear when an ANT pops into my head. I used to feel them like an evil presence now I either laugh while I put them in the cage with my ANT-hungry RATS or at worst when they are persistant I say 3 or 4 RATs then the trump card "Who cares? It doesn't matter, it is NOT going to happen, I'm not going to listen to you pathological liar!"

Believe me, you will get over it. There is no demon. But at the same time if this is persisting then get checked out, if you go to the emergency they will schedule something within a week (In Canada, maybe faster in the States) and probably get you some Ativan or Klonopin for the waiting time (They gave me some) or if you are really anxious then they will keep you in an schedule that day.

I like how simple the whole "ANT" thing makes it seem. I think that way of explaining it would even help someone who isn't suffering an anxiety disorder. I have actually known about all of that and utilized it for a long time now, although not in such a step by step way of understanding it.

I think you may be misunderstanding me due to my very poor explanations. I thought the initial advice you gave was solely for drug related anxiety and that you misunderstood when I said I was not using psychedelics. That is why I may have seemed hesitant.

To clarify, I actually do not experience anxiety any more then a normal person does other then when I have these "attacks" of sorts. It's like someone who gets panic attacks. They aren't always panicking on different levels, only when they have the attacks. I'm actually more of an optimistic and positive individual than alot of people I know, and always have been. It is only these 30 to 60 second episodes that happen occasionally that I have been having trouble with. During them I'm not anxious about anything specifically at all, just all around scared of being scared, which I suppose is irrational.

I think the way you think my current situation is is more like what it used to be. I have done all sorts of work with positive thinking and whatnot with these attacks. They are more an empty skeleton of what they used to be and now I'm just trying to find a way to get rid of the skeleton if you know what I mean. What was once debilitating is now more of an inconvenience then anything. The one big thing these attacks are keeping me from doing is working with entheogens again, and you did give me some advice on that.

I hope this post clarifies things a bit. You have made alot of really good points and given me alot of good information, even amongst the misunderstandings. I'm still interested in anything else you have to say now that I have clarified.

While Q's techniques are certainly effective, and the Cognitive Therapy & NLP they are based in has shown very good results over the years...

I just want to say that not all thoughts that lead to anxiety are irrational. In fact, there are plenty of irrational thoughts that make people feel much better, and tons of rational thoughts that can lead you to terror.

If you watch a news broadcast that says a hurricane, tornado, meteor strike (insert boogie man of your choice) is on its way to where you live, the thought that arises is both rational and terrifying.

Sure, you can train yourself to substitute positive, useful thoughts for ones that cause you trouble. Just like a martial artist can train himself to alter the physiological "surprise mechanism" of raising one's center of gravity, shrugging one's shoulders, and squinting one's eyes to lowering his center of gravity, placing his hands in a defensive position, and focusing on any movement with his peripheral vision when he feels like he might be being attacked. Even if he's wrong, there is nothing wrong with being calm and in a good, stable stance. If you can keep your adrenal glands from squirting dangerous levels of cortisol into your system... even better.

In fact, nipping anxiety in the bud is always a good idea. Recognizing that even if something hardcore IS ACTUALLY GOING DOWN... being calm and focused will be more useful to you is pretty obvious. You could be having machine gun fire whizzing overhead, and anxiety will not help you one whit.

However, pretending that there is surely no danger, when it is possible that there is... is not rational.

Thus, if all your intuition and your subjective experience is telling you that you might be being attacked by something... it behooves you to at least consider that this might be the case. Finding out what other people who believe in this possibility and have experience in dealing with it recommend, can not hurt. If it feels right to you, you can test the validity of the methods and find out if they work for you.

Whether or not such things are objectively true is of little consequence. Saying that something can not be proven to be true, is not the same as saying it has been proven untrue.

If an entity were trying to harm you, and you didn't even allow yourself to contemplate the possibility, this would certainly be a terrible, potentially critical, mistake. If it turns out that evil beings don't exists, or have no interest in you (quite likely), then you have only wasted a handful of minutes learning about what other people think on this subject. Some of it might even be useful, if you happen to write fiction or were curious about spiritualism anyway.

Note, I am NOT saying that you are being attacked by evil entities you met while being a spicenaut. What I am saying is that such an idea is not really any less rational than that you traumatised yourself into imagining that to be the case.

You raise very good points, Hyperspace Fool. In this situation, just like any in my life, I'm not ruling out any possibilities. While I'll certainly lean towards ideas that resonate better with what I'm experiencing, I'm remaining open to anything. If you or anyone else has any idea about what it is I might be dealing with or how I can deal with it, please chime in. I would really appreciate any help that can be offered.

Bang on Hyperspace fool.
I see now that unlike the ANTs for social anxiety which are 99% irrational and 100% exaggerated to some degree there are definitely thing to worry about rationally in the depths of hyperspace so being weary of that is something to make sure.
So maybe that RATS should be "it is more than likely that since it is making me anxious then it is irrational" but still be weary of those that aren't.

That being said one of the things that has changed since I've started combating the ANTs is that I have learned their source and if the source is party or wholly rational then I most definitely don't refute it.

For example when my anxiety was really bad I would leave the house and for 10-15 minutes after I would be stressing about whether I forgot something I needed even if I listed out the things in my head and made sure I had everything. This would then put my mind (the ANTs) into overdrive thinking, stressing over all the possible circumstances and likely finding one possibility and an item I didn't pack which would make me stress out REALLY bad.

Just yesterday I was a little anxious (still able to think quite rationally though) while going out to a neighbor's house for dinner. I over-packed because of it and as I went to leave with my loaded backpack I thought to myself and remembered, without worry or stress, that I needed my iPod and I went and got it. There were no negatives as I left, I knew I over-prepared and I left. Of course as soon as I got there the anxiety was gone, it was a wonderful evening, btw.
So my neural-pathways have changed to allow me to still be vigilant about what I need but not feel negatively and stress about it.

Still hyperspace is completely different, nonetheless if you have your mindset, proper set, setting and dose as well as experience enough to know how to let go and what-not then removing the initial anxiety which taking care to be vigilant on the things needed above would be very beneficial I believe.
Personally I'm still post-poning taking my anxiety techniques into hyperspace, I haven't been there in 4 months and 4 month before that was my second to last so I'm not going to say anything conclusive.

I wholly agree with Hyperspace Fool though, don't assume since it makes you anxious that it is irrational.

Have you tried to quit smoking pot? In some sensitive mental periods of time cannabis can be very confusing. It might be easier to control your thoughts if you quit. i had a period when cannabis used to give me all kinds of anxieties, and when i stopped smoking my life became a great deal easier to handle, even my psychedelic experiences became better after that.
It’s also known that cannabis can cause schizophrenia attacks to some people, who have the tendency for that, so that could be a good reason to try quieting for a while. not that i believe you have schizophrenia though, you seem to be thinking very rationally, but i know how anxiety feels like, and it’s not funny when it comes.
i have a special interest in the way schizophrenia could be somehow related to some entities taking over or possessing people, from my experience with people having schizophrenic attacks, it certainly seem to be related to some psychedelic realms of consciousness. I believe modern psychiatry cannot really understand this disease, and will not be able to cure it because they have no real understanding about the true abilities of the soul.
i had a very close friend who suffered from schizophrenia, and sometimes when he smoked pot (and he did quite allot, he had some very strange visions of demons and all kind of entities that spoke to him, it became more and more extreme during the years, until he completely lost it, it was as if he was haunted by some kind of creatures. the last time i saw him smoking pot, he went completely mad and violent, he shouted in unknown language with strange voices, and when i looked in his eyes, it was as if he’s not there at all, it was as if there was something else taking over his body.
But I do believe schizophrenia can only happen to people with a true secrete wish for self destruction, and I believe they somehow have to welcome these other creatures to come in and stay. It doesn’t seem to me you are suffering from the same kind of state of mind.
I guess you’re the one who knows the best how to act upon your own mind situations, but Swim would like to advice to you to quite the pot for a while, and maybe in few weeks you would feel comfortable enough for another psychedelic experience. Anyhow I don’t think you have to worry too much because fear and anxiety are very normal mental human conditions that everybody must encounter from time to time, and when you can get out of these periods, you might gain some new strength out of this experience. i mean , you shouldn’t fear the fear , because when you actually deal with fear, you might find out you can be much more courageous than you thought you are, that’s to say being courageous is not the same of being fearless, but the opposite of that- which is to actually deal with the fears.
Does it make any sense?

Great advice Fractalic!

Fractalic is right with the weed thing. If nothing else, that stuff can make people damn paranoid from time to time. The fact that it didn't do that to me, is one reason it took me a very loooong time to quit.

Absolutely.

Sounds like you're making strides, bro. Stress is a killer... and we have enough of it without creating it for ourselves. Props.

Actually, considering how your Limtek advances have helped so many people spice it up easier and safer than before, I find it mildly ironic that you yourself have only smoalked a couple times in 8 months. Not any sort of pejorative judgment, though... really not. I know heads who have it laying around for years without wanting to partake.

It seems to me that both you and the OP could benefit from some regular meditation. Learning how to let go of thoughts directly, and go beneath them to find the structures from which they arise is very rewarding. Like dealing with weeds, you got to get to the roots of a thought pattern to truly uproot it.

And Xemnas, as for dark entities, there are plenty of anecdotal posts here on the Nexus you can peruse. Combine this with the extensive literature, and the picture that emerges seems to point to the idea that whatever they are (projections of the subconscious, authentic external beings whatever), they are attracted to negative emotions. IMO they seem to feed on things like anger, sadness, worry, and most importantly fear. Since it is their food, they are expert in increasing these feeling in you. The main idea is not to feed them.

Just like cockaroaches or mosquitoes.

Even if they are just egoic projections, the method and end results are the same. Control whatever negative emotion is bringing them around.

There are also cleansing and protecting methods that can be used. I can't really get into them here. But you should be able to find some if you are inclined. Just remember that a tiny bit of light can completely erradicate a proportionately huge amount of darkness. A good simple-to-remember mantra can be like gold.

All the best.

i normally use Mahamrityunjaya Mantra for protection or gayatri mantra for relaxation.
http://www.youtube.com/w...AfGU&feature=related

Thanks for the advice guys.

To clarify, I haven't been using cannabis ever since this started. It was just the initial cannabis experience that flipped some sort of switch in my brain that triggered these "attacks". I used it one time a few days after this started, and it magnified the issue, so I stopped completely.

I have considered that it might be some kind of cannabis-induced schizophrenic episode, due to the somewhat pychedelic nature of these attacks, and I have heard cannabis has done that to people, but I also think it might be some kind of underlying emotional problem (which may or may not be DMT related) that the cannabis has just brought to the surface for me to deal with. It is even possible that it is some sort of entity. It certainly seems that way at times, but I've been trying to avoid that thought as not to give more power to whatever this may be.

I have been using meditation to deal with this as best I can, and it has helped alot over these few months. These attacks have tested my mental strength incredibly, acting as mental pushups of sorts, and have made me very mentally strong, which I suppose is a plus side. I have been able to "boil" these attacks down to the point where I can cope with them when they happen, understand what thoughts trigger them, and they've become very infrequent. I just don't know why they happen and I want to find a way to make them stop for good.

Should I just dive into the fear head on when it happens and stop running away from it? Or is that maybe dangerous and I should act on my minds instinct to flee?

Could this be a situation that psychedelics might help me with? I'm sure it would be very difficult work but I have considered doing ayahuasca. I have heard that it has helped alot of people during spiritual crises. Or could psychedelics just worsen the issue? I've also thought that maybe if it is some form of PTSD due to DMT, that I should dive deep into the terror during an MDMA session. I have heard MDMA can help greatly in cases of PTSD, but that may not be what I have.

It might seem obvious that I should keep doing what I'm doing, but I do think I have just been burying the issue. I want to face these attacks and stop running from them. Day to day I could probably continue to cope with this for years to come if I really had to, but I really want to be over this whole thing, and I also want to work with psychedelics again without the fear of being plunged into a bad experience or worsening my condition somehow.

Any helpful information is greatly appreciated.

it seems to me you are handling this situation in a very brave manner, you seem to be thinking very rationally about it and i guess you should trust your instincts for you are the only one who can really understand the intensity of these feelings.
i have a friend that was taking psychedelics for many years, and never had any problem with that, until one day he just started tripping and couldn't make it stop. he was telling me he feels he was under the influence of acid all the time and that it didn't go away for mounts, he was sure it was a kind of extreme flashback, even though he was behaving normally and was able to control himself in a way that no one could see something was wrong.
after few mounts he went to the doctors, and they found out he was beaten buy some kind of tick, and that was the cause for his long lasting trip...
just in case it sounds similar to you experience, you might check this option out... my friend is fine now.
take care

Hmmmm... some sort of odd reaction to Lyme's disease perhaps. Intereseting.

Doesn't sound like it is Xemnas' problem, but who knows...

Xem, Considering that what you are doing has been working and you are seeing significant gains from what you are doing, logically it would be smart to continue in the modalities that have been helping and turn up the heat on them a bit. Meditate deeper, longer, or with more focus on getting to the bottom of it. Consider using some meditation aids, perhaps, brainwave entrainment helps.

It is clear that using some form of psychedelic in tandem with the meditation would increase it's intensity and open the door for a more speedy healing... but it could also make things worse.

If you are open to considering the entities concept, at least in principle, then it follows that certain psycho-spiritual activities in your past (Cannabis, DMT...) had opened you up to the potential for such attacks. This is not unknown in these realms. Cannabis is said to put temporary holes in one's aura. And, of course, spice can fling you out into deep Hyperspace like a worm lure on the end of a cosmic fishing rod.

It certainly couldn't hurt to at least research a bit about spiritual warfare, methods of protecting oneself, how to clear one's space and one's energy field etc.

I wish you all the best amigo. Namaste.