I Am
Posts: 21 Joined: 15-Sep-2011 Last visit: 08-Jan-2012 Location: InnerSpace
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I was just reading that 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT could possibly be produced within mushrooms by including 5-MeO-DMT in the growing medium because 4-OH-DIPT has been done the same way using DIPT in the growth medium. If you did produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT in the mushrooms, wouldn't that then make those mushrooms legal? If you were to do this, and grow mushrooms from those spores, would the next generation of mushrooms produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT instead of 4-OH-DMT? "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds!" -Bob Marley
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 5267 Joined: 01-Jul-2010 Last visit: 13-Dec-2018
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Even assuming your mushrooms contained this extra non-scheduled alkaloid, I would still imagine that there would be a fair amount of psilocybin and some psilocin in there as well as the mushroom probably wouldn't exclusively produce this 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT. Now having said all of that, I remember a discussion a while ago that talked about including DMT in growth medium of plants and it was concluded that it probably wouldn't make a difference (but that was for plants and this is for fungi, so perhaps the mechanism for the assimilating the alkaloids would be different). I can't give you an exact answer, but I would wager my bet on that it wouldn't happen at all, but I'm wishing you the best of luck. I'm actually rooting for you. If it is possible, it probably isn't legal, but it would be cool if you did it anyway   Also where did you read that? [Edit]: Also we know that 5-MeO DMT is orally active as is psilocybin and psilocin obviously, but would this novel tryptamine you read about even be orally active? "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein
"The Mighty One appears, the horizon shines. Atum appears on the smell of his censing, the Sunshine- god has risen in the sky, the Mansion of the pyramidion is in joy and all its inmates are assembled, a voice calls out within the shrine, shouting reverberates around the Netherworld." - Egyptian Book of the Dead
"Man fears time, but time fears the Pyramids" - 9th century Arab proverb
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DMT-Nexus member
   
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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ShaggyBeing wrote:If you did produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT in the mushrooms, wouldn't that then make those mushrooms legal? Nope. As Global said, this won't prevent the mushrooms from making psilocin and psilocybin. ShaggyBeing wrote:If you were to do this, and grow mushrooms from those spores, would the next generation of mushrooms produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT instead of 4-OH-DMT? No. Giving the mushroom some 5-MeO-DMT to eat will in no way give the mushroom the genetics to make its own 5-MeO-DMT. If your mom ate bananas while she was pregnant, would this give you the ability to spontaneously produce bananas?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 290 Joined: 15-Jun-2011 Last visit: 01-Jun-2020
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Entropymancer wrote:ShaggyBeing wrote:If you did produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT in the mushrooms, wouldn't that then make those mushrooms legal? Nope. As Global said, this won't prevent the mushrooms from making psilocin and psilocybin. ShaggyBeing wrote:If you were to do this, and grow mushrooms from those spores, would the next generation of mushrooms produce 4-OH-5-MeO-DMT instead of 4-OH-DMT? No. Giving the mushroom some 5-MeO-DMT to eat will in no way give the mushroom the genetics to make its own 5-MeO-DMT. If your mom ate bananas while she was pregnant, would this give you the ability to spontaneously produce bananas? But... My mom ate a lot of nuts whilst I was in utero. And people say I am crazy, how do you explain that? All these posts are on behalf of Stimpy, my yellow bullhead. He is an adventurous fish, and I feel his exploits are worth sharing...so much so, I occasionally forget that HE is the one who does these things. Sometimes I get caught in the moment and write of his experiences in the first person; this is a mistake, for I am an upstanding citizen who never does wrong. Stimpy is the degenerate.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 50 Joined: 13-Jun-2011 Last visit: 05-Apr-2013 Location: America
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I haven't talked to anyone who has successfully cultivated 4-HO-5-MEO-DMT using this method nor have I read about anyone who has successfully done it. Also, the point of growing/eating mushrooms is to consume 4-HO-DMT. 4-HO-5-MEO-DMT would be a substantially different substance which would technically make them not "shrooms".
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1367 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 12-Jun-2016 Location: Pacific Northwest
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bill wrote:I haven't talked to anyone who has successfully cultivated 4-HO-5-MEO-DMT using this method nor have I read about anyone who has successfully done it. That does bring up a good point... while we know mushrooms fed DiPT or DPT will produce their 4-hydroxylated derivatives, it takes a leap of faith to assume that they'll similarly hydroxylate 5-MeO-DMT. In the case of 5-MeO-DMT, that 5-position methoxy group will be directly adjacent to the active site of the enzyme. This could lead to a local chemical environment where the hydroxylation isn't favorable, or it could simply be too bulky or too polar to get into the active site in the proper orientation for the enzyme to catalyze the reaction. Shulgin guesstimated the odds of it working at 50/50... I'd probably put the odds as a bit less than that. For anyone interested, Shulgin's comments on the subject can be read here: http://www.cognitivelibe...g/shulgin/blg/index.htmlAsk Dr. Shulgin wrote:4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be a fascinating compound to explore. The reason it's not in TIKHAL is that it is virtually unknown. The only report of it in the chemical literature was a paper published by Marc Julia's group at the Pasteur Institute in 1965. They reported the synthesis and physical properties of the compound but to my knowledge it has never been explored in any way. The synthesis is quite a frightening thing. It starts with ortho-vanillin and takes approximately 10 steps to get to the 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. I'm not surprised that no one has pursued the compound.
However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug. I'm very skeptical of his claim that they would contain "no illegal drug". Even if the media was totally saturated with an appropriate substrate tryptamine, and that substrate tryptamine had a higher affinity for the enzyme than the ordinary natural product contained in the mushroom, it's difficult to believe that there wouldn't still be detectable traces of psilocin in the mushrooms.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3207 Joined: 19-Jul-2011 Last visit: 02-Jan-2023
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even if all the psilocin was converted (hypothetically) "These two hallucinogens may at first appear to be legal because their specific chemical compounds are not listed as controlled substances. But since they act like DMT in the body, they are known as 'controlled substance analogs,' and they are indeed illegal." still illegal, but probably a very amazing fungi My wind instrument is the bong
CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
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