Apologies for the long post but I feel in order for others to understand my experience I must tell the full story. I must first say that prior to this I did not believe that truly 'evil' beings existed and instead believed that beings may take on dark appearances in order to convey a message (like the wrathful deities in Buddhism - enlightened beings that take on wrathful forms to lead sentient beings to enlightenment). However a few days ago these beliefs were shattered in the DMT trip which would end all future explorations. When reading this, please reserve judgment as I have indeed learnt my lesson.


I had been more and more frequently exploring hyperspace and for about a month I had been making at least one exploration per day. Despite this I still believed I was using DMT in a responsible manner, documenting absolutely every thing I experience immediately after each trip. I realise now however that my use was indeed becoming somewhat compulsive as the desire to explore hyperspace as much as I could got stronger and stronger. I must say though that more or less all of my DMT experiences up to this point had been the most beautifully glowing and insightful psychedelic experiences I have ever had and there were no obvious messages from the spice instructing me to take a break from it. I say obvious as there this recurrent trip that I realised now was the spice’s way of telling me to take it easy.


This recurring theme occurred in the last 20 trips or so. This theme would happen in more or less the exact same manner almost every time I hit hyperspace. The full experience report of this recurring theme can be found here: Help with understanding recurring DMT trip theme. In short it happened in 4 steps that would loop for what often felt like an eternity: (1) I would be holding onto something truly beautiful that I didn't ever want to let go of (2) The loving and peaceful entities would tell me I needed to let go of this thing (3) These 'agents' and police-type beings would come from all angles trying to take this thing from me but I would never give it up (4) This thing turned from something truly beautiful into something truly repulsive and I immediately realised I had to get rid of it as quickly as possible and hide any memory of it.


In hindsight this recurring theme was both a summary of inner events that were occurring and a prophecy of events to come. I began noticing dark beings in trips, but because I read and believed that these 'dark' beings are often part of ourselves coming to the surface that we must deal with I befriended these dark beings as I felt they had something important to share with me. The following are excerpts from explorations prior to my final trip regarding these dark beings, and my way of thinking that I believe ultimately led to direct contact with the beings in my final horrific trip:


"...I remember this weird swamp-monster type being who was so dark and scary, and was throwing up this black oily sludge everywhere...."


"I think these dark places deserve just as much exploration as the brighter places"


".... I remember I was talking to these very dark beings whose body and arms were made of snakes. They would kind of draw me in with these black snake arms but were not hostile in any way and felt like they wanted to befriend me. My guardian was watching over me like a worried parent but I telepathically conveyed 'Its fine they're not as bad as they look and I wouldn't get influenced by them'...."


"I was watching familiar images/patterns of DMT hyperspace but this time there were these dark beings kind of melding their way into the trip. I didn't fight them, instead felt my being drawn into them and as they filled hyperspace I felt a kind of sexual energy continue to draw me in. I was trying to befriend these beings so as to better understand them."


"I think they most probably represented a part of myself which I need to come to grips with."


"What are these dark beings that keep trying to make their way in? They don’t seem to want to cause any harm to me and seem nice enough but they are just so dark. I do think though that just because they're dark doesn't necessarily mean they're evil"


"I envisaged this bog monster type being who was throwing up black slick all over my trousers and it was repulsive. I remember thinking ‘oh damn this dirty bog monster is here tonight, let’s call off the mission off because he’s ruining it for everyone’..."


All these experiences were still glowing and I came back feeling greatly rewarded for what I had seen, however my final experience was the most terrifying thing I could have ever imagined was possible to experience after smoking DMT. This is the report I managed to write after the feelings of panic and sheer terror had subsided:


THERE ARE SOME SERIOUSLY HOSTILE FORCES THAT ARE TRYING TO CAUSE ME GREAT HARM. What I just endured I would hope no one should ever have to endure. I was tortured and abused for eternity and there was nothing I could do to stop it. I tried just letting go and going with it but no matter what I did these evil forces were determined that I suffer as much as possible. This is no projection of my psyche these are seriously hostile relentlessly evil forces that take great pleasure in making others suffer. They are still trying to exert their influence on me 25 minutes after administration. This is what happened:

After taking 2 extremely large hits (dose = 45mg white DMT) I was in and there was no turning back. 'OH MY GOD MAKE IT STOP! NO! NO! NO!' but I knew there was no way to end it. These evil forces rammed something repulsively horrible into my throat (imagine a hairball made of a thousand dead locusts) and I choked and gagged but it made no difference - I could feel them forcing it down harder and wanting me to suffer. I said ‘Lets stop this please I'll give you anything!’ but the intensity just got greater and greater. I tried to stop resisting and just go with it but submission made no difference. They threw me around the most horrible areas of hyperspace while beating and torturing my soul mercilessly. They kept making me choke on these horrible locusts, and I begged and pleaded for them to stop but they were truly merciless and had no desire other than to cause me as much suffering as they could. The whole experience looped, beginning with forcing this horrible thing down my throat then flinging me to hell-like environments while abusing me in ways I didn’t think possible. It looped again and again and I felt my soul get beaten and tortured for an eternity. I tried everything - resisting, submitting, crying out to guardians for help - but I was truly and utterly helpless. I kept thinking ‘there must be a meaning behind this loop’ but it just felt like mindless horrifying torture.


After what felt like lifetimes of abuse, I finally started regaining awareness of my body. I put my hands up shouting 'HAVE MERCY! HAVE MERCY!' and looked around the room frantically as I could still feel them around me. I begged them to stop but they never would. The only reason the abuse began to feel like it was coming to an end was because the DMT was wearing off. I thought how lucky I had been in my life up until this point that I had not been beaten up or hurt badly by anyone but this made up for it all. It was worse than being killed because it was endless sheer terror combined with this gagging of dead insects in my throat, and it happened over and over. I sat in my room for a long time extremely shaken up and hoping to god they didn’t come back. I got caught in another loop, this time a thought loop of thinking I wasn't yet safe and trying to work out why this happened to me. I kept muttering to myself 'there are seriously hostile forces that want to make me suffer'. I looked at my watch and only 11 minutes had passed. I immediately agreed that I will not be smoking DMT ever again. The feeling of locusts in my throat persisted for so long afterwards, and I tried to vomit as I felt this horrible dark energy inside me that I felt needed to come out. I dry heaved but didn’t feel any better and this horrible scratchy globus in my throat persisted for the rest of the evening.


MY INTERPRETATIONS:

(1) I had begun using DMT somewhat recreationally by journeying every night and this was the spices way of telling me NO MORE! Though it seems an overly harsh way of conveying this message perhaps it was the only way my stubborn self would listen. I think the recurring trip was a warning to 'let go' of this beautiful thing before it turns into something horrible and repulsive.

(2) My compulsive use of DMT drew in some dark energy as the more I journeyed the darker the places I seemed to go. Also by being as open as possible to everything I saw in hyperspace and not paying attention to my guardians I opened myself to dark beings that eventually had control of me and made me suffer.



I would love to get any advice I can into why you think this happened. Am I now safe as long as I no longer step into hyperspace ever again? Has anyone had any similar experiences with dark and hostile forces? Although I was convinced that whatever did this to me was truly evil immediately after it happened, I am now more open to the idea that it may indeed have been a wrathful deity forcing me to stop this careless use of DMT as I realise now I was becoming obsessed with hyperspace and looking for all the answers. Perhaps I needed this nudge to get back to reality as there are more important things for me to be doing here than out in hyperspace exploring.

Dark "forces"/evil entities or whatever one wants to call them are not so unusual in DMT space and I think one can even learn from them or face one's fears right on, even if one comes back having crapped his/her pants

Thinking there's no difficult experiences with the D is naive!

I've seen and felt unpleasant stuff with the D, but as I said before, bear in the forest won't keep me away from the forest's beauty !

Sorry you had such an awful experience. I think that your own interpretation of its meaning is better than anything anyone else could tell you.

Do I remember correctly that you’re studying to become a physician? If so, this experience will hopefully add to your understanding of what it feels like to be “truly and utterly helpless” – familiar feelings to some of those who you may one day treat.

Another contributor for such a difficult experience may be the large dose. If your smoking method and device are reasonably efficient, then 45mg is a very large dose. I have deep, fully immersive experiences with 25-30mg. I’ve never attempted to use more than 30mg in my GVG. It just isn’t necessary.

I would say that you should come back to hyperspace some time in your life, and this time, use common sense. if I see a creature with snakes instead of arms i would stay away from it. and listen to your guardians ALWAYS. light is good, dark is bad. just common sense. i feel your pain brother, i have had bad trips but nothing like this, im amazed, I went through all your story, im shocked. but im with you, and I say, go back when you feel is time, and be wise.

Wow man that sounds truly horrendous and I'm sorry that you had to go through that.

It seems to me that you were being shown repeatedly to start withdrawing from spice as you stated in your other thread and your continual refusal to do so might have been what caused such a harsh reaction. From what you stated before, you were shown many times over many different trips that you should 'let go of the beautiful object' before it turned repulsive. Perhaps this was the final straw, like when a parent starts counting down from 3.

Daddy Spice: "Ok Dr. Psychonaut I'm going to count to 3 and if you don't listen to what I'm telling you I'm going to give you a spanking! 3.... 2.... 1.... 1/2.... last warning.... ok! *SLAP*"

On the other hand, it's worth noting that shamans have forever talked about getting chopped to pieces and torn apart on their spirit quests, only to be rebuilt in a totally different way which many times allowed them access to psychic abilities such as clairvoyance. Daniel Pinchbeck also claims to have had an encounter while on DPT (I think that's what it was) with demonic entities that ended up lingering around his apartment until his friend did a cleansing ceremony. Still another note about this topic is Dr. Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule, supposedly went to see a psychic about his dealings with the strange mystery of DMT and the psychic told him to be careful because there were beings on the other side who wanted to come into this world using the drug DMT. This apparently is what stopped Dr. Strassman from continuing his research, but unfortunately I don't remember where I had heard this so a citation is needed to verify this actually happened and wasn't just rumor.

I've had only one truly negative trip in my life and its not quite as extreme as the one you describe above, but I had an encounter with what I assume was a negative being. It bellowed to me to get out of hyperspace and that I 'didn't know the powers in which I was dealing!' and proceeded to show me an endless loop of my life on earth being repeated over and over again for eternity and that's all that awaited me after I died... more and more of the exact same thing for all eternity. You'd have to know me in real life, but that concept is my biggest fear: the whole concept of 'we die to remember what we live to forget' truly frightens me. However, after time I was able to interpret that trip as a lesson in integration. Like you, I had been tripping more than I probably should have been, like once or twice a week. I feel now when you trip like that your missing so much of what your supposed to be learning while your 'over there' in hyperspace that eventually 'divine intervention' needs to happen on your behalf to slow you down to make sure your not missing anything. Truth be told, every trip I've ever had has taken weeks if not months on its own to integrate into my waking reality so my lesson in integration proved useful to me in the end, although when I came out of that trip I was so terrified of tripping ever again I made the same declaration as you: 'no more!'. However, I bet with time and integration, you will once again find yourself hearing the call After all, once you've taken the red pill there's just no going back...


EDIT: Something just had occured to me as I posted this but Dr. Psycho, how are your lungs lately? The reason I ask is with the amount of DMT you say your smoking per week and knowing how harsh DMT smoke is, could it be possible that the entities were trying to show you that you need to stop smoking DMT before it 'turns to something repulsive', meaning something harmful to your health? Maybe that was the whole metaphor for something truly nasty being shoved into your throat, DMT is really nasty to smoke I can't imagine it's good for your physical health. Somewhere here on the nexus there was a post made by someone who was smoking DMT and was shown that for the next leg of their spiritual journey, Ayuahasca was the chosen teacher. Maybe smokable DMT has nothing more to teach you and it could be time to move onto a different plant, who knows? Anyways I just wanted to put that up there since it crossed my mind.

Wow, sounds like its time to take a nice long break.
Rest up and clear your mind.
Don't give up on hyperspace just yet.
Next time maybe try some changa and ease your way into it.
Good luck!

I don't have time at the moment but I just wanted to day
Once a day is too much . I,ve learned the hard way that there must be
Integration time between sessions . I don't know why but
Things turn very fucked up and dark . You may be stronger because of this .

Dr Psychonaut,

I can truly sympathise with your experience as I am am only 5/6 days out of my hell. I said most the things you have, you could not wish this experience on your worst enemy. I believe it resulted in me going into real shock. My pupils are constantly massive. You can read my account, it starts off me happy that I received my new GVG then later in the posts I have my first bad experience with the loop of different reality's. Even though I managed to break out of in two minutes later, it lasted an eternity. But in that experience I still knew who I was.I gained advice from members and they seemed to believe I dosed way too high, witch I did.

So I went in again a few day later with some family members around this time. And this bright spark overdose again (I am sure it was between 70/90mg in one hit)I took the hit and lay back shut my eyes. Then instantly opened them to see blood red everywhere, so shut my eyes again to be instantly in a new reality more intelligently scary than one could possibly fathom. It continued from the last one only that was nothing in comparison to this. I remember clearly saying to myself oh no not again, its worst than I remember, why did I do this. I shouted out to my sitters get me out. Then my memory's got replaced with a blanc slate, experiencing this horrific endless experience, believing this was always my existence. At this point my sitters say I was sitting upright with my eyes opened impossibly wide, my hair totally spiked. They said my face was distorted so badly, whilst they were trying frantically to get me to respond, they thought my mind was lost. I don't want to talk about this in too much detail as I am only now starting to not constantly think about it, when I wake up, at work, whilst in a conversation. Some experiences you cant un have/see. I just wanted you to know I can relate. I know it sucks when you come to a place that specialises in DMT and a lot of member say oh its just a bad trip(though so people who replied to me genuinely understood). An you physically know there is true evil that can get a hold of you. I swore off spice too, though now constantly think about the after life an what could await me. My guardian was nowhere to be seen in all this.

I also used to see a swamp monster, generally as I was exiting my trip, his head would pop up out of the swamp looking at me with a creepy face. But that's it. I got that when I stayed into long and it was getting dark under my lids.

I was thinking if this is the chemical that is released at death, well maybe I took so much in one hit I had an near death experience type fear whilst in hyperspace. No sure just a thought.

I saw that its not a spiritual and love is the key existence, it was systematic and hyper intelligent. I lived this for an eternity and realised we are just In one room with a set of rules that apply in here, but this is only a short experience an soon I will be back out of this room...to whatever awaits.

My only advice now I am getting over it is don't keep retracing certain parts to see if you still can imagine the thoughts that occurred during the horror trip. And I hope you recover stronger and never have to go thought anything like that again brother.

Whoa that's quite a psychic!

Wow let me just say thank you so much for such care and support. I thought I was about to get a slating from the nexus regarding my irresponsible use of DMT, guess I had to learn my lesson the hard way.





Thank you Caliwa, and I did kind of think to myself 'these beings are clearly evil' but they have this bizarre way of getting ahold of you. They would kind of grab my consciousness with the energy of lower desires, and my being would be filled with this sexual energy that I almost couldn't resist and would distract me from how dark they were. I should have definitely listened to my guardians though, instead of acting like a rebel child who would eventually get struck down by an evil stranger.




Haha Tek that's the perfect analogy! And exactly what happened with my child-like stubborness that led to such a horrific experience. At the time it happened I found it very hard to believe that anything 'good' could do this but if there is good that ultimately comes out of the experience then perhaps it wasn't 'evil' at all but the only way to get through to me.





Yes I remember this. It was in his book 'The spirit molecule' and at the time I read it I thought 'that sounds like some crazy voodoo' but now it sends chills down my spine just thinking about it. If positive loving entities can communicate with us through DMT and guide us then why not evil entities too? After all isn't there a yin and yang to everything in the universe? Perhaps there should be well known guidelines into DMT use and how to avoid being influenced by negative forces. After having read a lot of opinions on the matter many beleive truly evil forces don't actually exist and they just represent inner conflicts that we should face, but in my case it was this thinking that led me to 'befriend' them. I guess the best advice would be just follow your guardians direction, but sometimes even knowing who your guardians are in hyperspace is difficult.





Thank you dreamwalker for the encouragement. I do really hate the idea of having ruined DMT exploration for myself and think I would be willing to give it a try maybe in a few years. I've really wanted to try ayahuasca and one day when I feel ready again I just might. I think in the meantime I'm going to work on astral projection and learn methods of psychic protection to protect my being from negative forces should they try and strike again.





That is very odd you mention this swamp monster as I saw him a few times and as you say it was always as I exit the trip. He never terrified me just kind of repulsed me. I definitely think the trips got darker the more frequently I explored. The last few trips before the final one were most bizarre, as I was smoking the same sized doses (30-35mg) as I always had been but was getting almost no CEVs and normally I'd be overwhelmed by them. It was like these forces were deliberately stopping my mind from being able to enter hyperspace for my own protection, but everytime this happened I just immediately loaded up the bong with more as I was so insistent on reaching the other side on every single trip. I have only myself to blame. If I ever resume DMT use I will never allow my obsessive nature to take control of me and I will give the spice the respect it rightfully deserves. I realise now the power of some of the forces out there in hyperspace and it's not just like 'going into a dream' where u can't be harmed, it is making yourself vulnerable to forces infinitely greater than we can imagine.

The come-up is always extraordinarily hellish and scary for me (ayahuasca), but after I let go of the idea of staying alive, I'm in heaven, literally. I had one real bad trip due to OD'ing with moclobemide. But it wasn't really any different than the other trips. I was still in heaven, except that I was hurtling at such a speed through it, that it was excruciatingly painful.

This sounds pretty typical, the human psyche is not one sided.
There is a saying about this among some shamans,
You must go through hell, to get to heaven.

A difficult experience would be an understatement and I very much doubt that anyone who has experienced anything close to this would speak about these evil entities so casually. Beware of this attitude of wanting to face them 'head on' also, as I tried to make myself as open as possible to anything they tried to convey to me but feel perhaps this was a fatal error. As long as you pay attention to guardians and avoid this macho attitude towards the spice I'm sure you'll never have to experience what I did.

Th way i dealt with such horrific entities who were staabbing and killing me was to view it from a 3rd person and i became an observer. My view would switch between 1st and 3rd person. I could feel the evil! I opened my eyes and, it was daytime btw, i could see entities in my room, one in particular was trying to anal probe me with a red flashing beacon. My instinct was to laugh but looking back on it it was probably real.

Later on that night after the visions had gone i heard a noise next to me and it sounded to me like something invisable had materialised next to me, maybe the peak dmt effects allowed me to see them and the afterglow allowed me to hear their appearance.


Entities are probably real but dont be afraid because you are eternal and will ascend to higher levels one day, life or existance.

why are you guys so sure that all of this is not subjective phenomenon? You are taking extremely powerful psychedelics, and in some cases rediculously huge doses. I am not saying it is not real..I dont even choose a side anymore when it comes to that issue. All I am saying is that it helps to be someone grounded in your approach here..and suddenly believing that none of this could be an internal struggle rather than external seems almost like an idealization of the human psyche. Are you sure that you are really without your own psychological demons? Again, remember you are taking large doses of a very heavy psychedelic and if you do have your own darker issues going on below the surface they can manifest in some very alarming ways durring such experiences.

I have experiences that were so realistic I was convinced it was happening outside of me, except entities explained to me that this was all going on inside of me. I was told that "to travel in the outer realms we travel deep within"..to me that implies that there is something else going on here rather than just all of this being subjective or objective manifestation. I think every person reflects the universe within themselves..so what you find inside is a mirror image of outside..just as what you find outside is a larger reflection of the inner world of every individual. So if you want to move beyond, you have to face these things, that is how it is. I mean, isn't this what nightmares are all about? Nightmares seem just as real as day..why would DMT be so different?

"suddenly believing that none of this could be an internal struggle rather than external seems almost like an idealization of the human psyche. Are you sure that you are really without your own psychological demons?" < i think fractal has a good point here

IMO its pretty unproductive (and occasionally psychologically unhealthy) to come to solid conclusions about the meaning of things we experience in hyperspace(see joenobos thread.)..and that labeling them as 'good' or 'evil' completely overlooks the phenomenon as it is; grossly oversimplifying it for the sake of convenience so we can feel "i understand that"- and can go on with our life. Our minds love to classify things..but time and time again dmt will obliterate our conceptual framework and remind us that we don't understand shit and its never that simple..Its not that there aren't psychological dangers..but being so sure of the evil meaning like this just seems akin to tendency of religious missionaries to label all unpleasantly weird things they encountered, like the customs of the natives for example, as 'evil' and all things that go along with their subjective idea of 'right' as being 'good'.

If there are things in hyperspace that don't have our best intentions in mind, be it internal external or whatever, to me it seems that our confrontations with them are just another step in our development..prodding us along down our path. One message i always get is that everything is unfolding as it should- regardless of whether or not it aligns with our own internal story we continually tell ourselves about how WE think it should be

"This recurring theme occurred in the last 20 trips or so. This theme would happen in more or less the exact same manner almost every time I hit hyperspace. The full experience report of this recurring theme can be found here: Help with understanding recurring DMT trip theme. In short it happened in 4 steps that would loop for what often felt like an eternity: (1) I would be holding onto something truly beautiful that I didn't ever want to let go of (2) The loving and peaceful entities would tell me I needed to let go of this thing (3) These 'agents' and police-type beings would come from all angles trying to take this thing from me but I would never give it up (4) This thing turned from something truly beautiful into something truly repulsive and I immediately realised I had to get rid of it as quickly as possible and hide any memory of it."

I'd bet that some of the content we experience has to do with psychological complexes that appear to us as being completely external- since we are getting a 'birds eye view' on our minds inner workings. This is just one possible interpretation- but to me that loop seems to be indicating that you need to let go of your desire to cling to that thing which, as they all keep explaining, "you need to let go". I mean it happened 20 times and you never let go..and then it culminated to the point where the trip was so horrific you screamed to guardians, begged for your life, ect ect, but never just let go and surrendered..again, thats just one way of looking at it. i would take some time off and do some grounding.. focus on earthly things for a while. in any case- good luck!

It seems to me that there are a couple of commonalities with trip reports such as this one. Frequency of use and amount vaped. I too have felt cold, black tentacled entities before and each time was with 45mg's and above after multiple sessions too close together. I too have been in room bending loops that i thought would never stop...MY FAULT each time...

I accept that and one of the very reasons I partake is for that realism of experience no matter how insanely vile or life changing beautiful. Remember...you wont die...the more you fight it and give into the fear the worse it will get...love conquers all...

Take a breather

Aetherbound

I said its probably real, if i'd said its probably not real it would be the same answer but more acceptable?

I'm sorry Dr Psychonaut had to go through what he did it sounds like a real hard one. I think everyone starting out should read threads like this. It can really shed light on the true power potential of spice and how wrong it can go.

I've had some bad ones in my day. I know very well the feeling of wanting to discard all remaining spice and never wanting to touch it again. The fear and terror one can get to is unimaginable until your in it and feel like you will never escape.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but , low dosing and easing yourself in is a good way to work. I see alot of posts on here about people regularly taking huge crazy doses and getting they're asses kicked.

Its easy to get complacent with spice especially after a few amazing blissful journeys. Never let your guard down, always stay alert and respectful and measure the dose/
I have not had a bad one in a real long time, probably a few years. All my journeys are totally amazing now and they just keep getting better, WHy is this?

I'll tell you why , I always measure my dose, I always travel with ayahuasca teacher in my system when i use spice, I almost always journey alone, I always journey in beautiful natural settings, I leave at least 1 to 2 weeks between each experience, I never go with unfinished business or negative feelings, I clean the pipe often and never burn the spice,
If things start going in a bad direction I abort all operations and don't push my luck any further, there is always next time, I don't eat crappy food or drink coffee or have alcohol on the day of journeying, I always have ritual grounding procedures and state intensions, I always ease in and never go balls right at the beginning. Its a process for me and it takes as long as it takes, I'm never in a rush.

why do i do all this shit ? Because spice is important to me and has had a profound positive impact on my life. I also have gained experience in how to use it and have learned through alot of trial and error what works for me.
I am cautious for damn good reason as Dr Psychonaut can attest to.

Very well put, Felnik. That's a lesson for us all.