SWIM's been having this recurring theme to his DMT trips for the last few weeks and feels he will keep having them until he finds the meaning behind it. It has variations but SWIM describes the typical trip as follows:


"After the chyrsanthemum type coloured patterns settle down I am shown something that is so precious to me that I really want to keep hold of and nurture and love and keep as mine. This 'thing' is shown to me in the form of incomprehenesible coloured symbols/patterns and accompanied by this loving and nurturing feeling. I then become aware of police-type agents that want to take this most precious thing away from me. Sometimes they are malevolent and sometimes they are just trying to talk me into letting go of it as if for my own good. On one trip I became surrounded by these agents in an epic hostage negotiation scene where I refused to let this precious thing free, even though I knew there was no way out. These feelings of caring and nurture however quickly begin to turn into repulsion and suddenly I've got hold of this incredibly vile and repulsive thing that I need to get rid of and make sure no one ever finds out about it . Sometimes I've still refused to throw it away even when it has turned rotten, and a couple of times have been stuck in a psychedelic loop that goes on for what feels like an eternity where I can't decide whether or not to throw this rotten thing away as I feel I might still have use for it."


Anyone had any similar themes occur or any ideas into what on earth this 'thing' is because SWIM just can't work it out?! These experiences usually occur at a 30-35mg dose of vaped spice. SWIM is contemplating an experience with changa or pharmahuasca soon and hoping it will give some kind of further insight but until then it'd be nice to see what some experienced trippers make of it. Cheers

Everything is transient.



In your hands you hold something beautiful...



Something beautiful that it seems you cannot keep...



You are told to let go... it is not yours...



But you stubbornly refuse.. so be it!



"Cling to beauty and you cling also to ugliness; Cling to nurturing and you cling also to repulsion."



The beauty has decayed. Desire to nurture and love has turned to "can this abomination still serve me?"

I can't say what the symbolism means to you, but I reckon this is a lesson in attachment. Since you already know where holding on leads, your path forward must surely be in doing the opposite. Ask yourself: "Where is the block? What is preventing me from achieving this?"

Do you distrust the voices that tell you to let go? Why? Who are they? Perhaps it's not so much about the "thing", but your own grasping self. Nothing is lost, though the ego tends to scream contradiction.

I hope you find the root of your challenge and manage to surpass it!

Happy trails

I can't fully interpret this. A DMT trip, like a dream, is best interpreted by the person who experienced it, as you know your life and psyche better than us.
That being said I do have one interesting idea based on what you wrote. You mention these police type agents trying to take something from you and that they tell you it is for your own good. This sounded to me a lot like the current war on drugs propaganda that police engage in, i.e. certain drugs they will take from you and arrest you basically for your own good(in their opinion).
As for the object it might be a drug represented in some way during your trip, you mention that you love and nurture it and want to keep it forever. You also mention agents who wish to take this thing away, but then you mention that the thing is really rotten on the inside. That may be some inner interpretation of some drug in some way, but that's just my opinion based on what you have written here.

As for the psychedelic loops, I get those more often than I'd like, and I dunno why they happen. In regards to discerning your situation, I think pharmahuasca might be a good route to go towards exploring this phenomena further. With much more time to let the situation unfold, it would be interesting to see how it progresses. Also, I'd imagine if you'd want a change up in the imagery, pharma (especially vaping DMT on pharma) could probably blast you right past that stage you get to and consequently alter your "regular" trips.

It's interesting you should say this as this is the only thing I could really link it to. I'm certainly a recreational drug user and love the way different drugs can alter your consciousness and comfort you. I've been habituated to smoking weed when I was growing up and now smoke it less but always have to tell myself to have a break from time to time. It always starts as a lovely experience which soon turns into 'why do I keep smoking it I'm so bored of being stoned and unproductive'. I also use tobacco and have started using xanax and ritalin in a similar way and I've realised that there's a part of me that loves it and another part of me that is repulsed by it.




This seems to ring true to my way of thinking when I consider 'should I just throw away my stash or give it to a friend and leave behind these compulsions before they become uncontrollable?'. But then I think 'oh but it'd be nice to just have a bit of weed for when I'm stressed from studying or it'd be good to have a few xanax for whenever I'm having sleep issues'. I always consider myself very able to just stop if I find myself becoming dependent on something.


My main concern however is does this apply to all substances? As I love the very occasional use of hallucinogens and the frequent use of DMT (at the moment) for the personal insights. Am I right in thinking hallucinogens are in a class of their own and don't carry the same compulsions that other drugs do as for me they feel like a different league of substances entirely.





I'm the same and psychedelic loops seem to occur very frequently and they can be very frustrating (most notably on salvia). I think it's true that we are responsible for these loops though and have the power to stop them simply by realising the reason behind it and modifying our behaviours/thought patterns. In my next trip I'm going to try and give up whatever it is and hope that then I get some kind of insight into what it is I am holding onto.

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All events described in any posts by Dr Psychonaut are entirely fictitious and for educational purposes only.

Loops on DMT can be frustrating. It's like, "ok thanks for showing me this again...and again...and again...", but with salvia it's a whole other story. I'm like 50x more scared by salvia loops because if I'm having salvia loops, I've probably (for the moment) completely lost my mind, with no idea what's going on as I'm dragged through uncomfortable, tactically bizarre dimensions.

This is exactly my salvia experience! I've only broken through on salvia twice and it is always accompanied by this terrifying loop of trying to find reality in an alien world. I can't see any meaning in this type of experience. My first couple of DMT breakthroughs also had a very salvia-esque feeling to them and I was convinced I had smoked salvia not DMT I don't know what this scary salvia land represents but it's probably my least favourite area of hyperspace.

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All events described in any posts by Dr Psychonaut are entirely fictitious and for educational purposes only.

The "thing" could be your "true spirit/essence" or at least connected to it. And then there are these beings who don't want you to "know" or to "have it".

It's even scarier when the world that's looping doesn't look so alien because (for me) the more the loop looks like some form of consensual reality, the less notion there is that I took a drug in the first place, and the more it seems like my existence is genuinely of one that will eternally loop!

I think the occasional use of psychedelics is never a bad thing(barring mental illness and such). They function as amazing tools for mental and spiritual exploration, but to everyone else they are just drugs. They act and behave like drugs, they should be consumed responsibly as with any drug, however this level of responsibility is much easier to achieve with psychedelics than with other drugs. I wish you luck in finding that level with all substances you might take. And I do agree the true psychedelics are in a different category of effects, comparing them to other substances is inherently flawed because they feel and work differently in the brain/mind.

This is my thinking too. Hallucinogens have a much lower potential for abuse due to their effects and mechanism of action. I figure as long as use is only occasional and is always used in a therapuetic manner (as opposed to an escape) I shouldn't worry about it. I do plan however on stopping/limiting my use of these other substances that have little or no therapeutic potential and are taken solely for recreation. Though I do think addiction and the triggers that lead to addiction are all in one's mindset, and if you are able to take something to make an otherwise dull evening full of colour as long as you don't do this compulsively or become dependent it's not an issue.

I used to be a big fan of pills of all sorts, but once I started establishing a higher relationship with psychedelics, I realized I didn't need those things anymore. The only thing other than psychedelics that I use is smoking cannabis daily. Keeps me balanced and pleased throughout the day.

I interpret this a little differently but it is your vision so it's strictly what I got out of what you wrote.

There is this guy that some of you may have heard of on youtube named TVSuat. He has some videos up of him having a conversation with an apparent light being while smoking Salvia. He is remarkably lucid during the entire experience, so much so that it's a little startling. He even fills in the blanks with what he remembered the entity had said. I'm sure some of you have seen this if your as curious about the psychedelic experience as I am.

Well in one of these videos (can't seem to find a link right now internet is being funny) he mentions how a hole in the fabric of reality opens and he can see out into hyperspace and there is a being of light on the other side that seems to be turning reality and rolling it up like a blanket (brings to mind all the old religious texts that refer to 'the scroll of life being unrolled' but I digress). Anyways, he describes the experience as having existed outside of this reality the whole time, and yet somehow, someway, he got 'caught up in it's hypnotic pull' and now he is stuck here and the entity said the only way to get out of this once your in it is to just wait until the 'end', or death.

Putting aside his experience, I can attest from my own trips that I've felt a similar way about being in this universe, like we don't REALLY belong here we belong in hyperspace. I'm reminded of a trip report I read on another forum where the tripper commented that he had a vision of a cartoon farm and a being he knew to be related to him came up to him, wiped his eyes and said 'careful when you look at that (presumably our reality)! you can spend a whole lifetime there and not realize you just had earth in your eye!'

What I get from your trip and if I had to interpret it I would say it's a lesson about being attached to this life. It's sort of like what Jesus said 'do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and thieves break in and steal but instead store up for yourself treasures in heaven'. Combining this all together, what if being here on Earth is actually a mistake. Like what if this whole thing we call our lives is actually our conciousness focused so narrowly and fiercely on something we consider beautiful, but by focusing so intently on this one thing we call our individual lives, we are missing EVERYTHING else hyperspace has to offer (doesn't this seem to be what the elves try to show us? 'Look at THIS!' 'Look at THIS!' 'PAY attention to what's going on!'

Think about it. If you had a friend who you loved dearly and they were really excited about a new video game, you'd let them play it and have fun. However, if a long enough period of time had passed you might think it a good idea to go check on your friend. If you found your friend totally immersed in the game to the point where psychosis had set in, where he literally thought he was in the game playing a character he mistook for himself, what would you do? If they were so severely gone from the real world that it would be dangerous to break them out of being 'plugged in' (think how the characters in the matrix die when they are unplugged wihtout 'logging out' by just yanking them out of it (if a hyperspaciel entity ripped us out of this game we call life wouldn't we consider it an absolutely dreadful event? We wouldn't understand!). You would need to adopt a soft approach, leave hints that your friend is caught up in a game and has forgotten where he truly is.

I'll close with this one telepathic message I recieved from an entity while in hyperspace one time. I asked how I could remember everything I was shown and the entity responded 'Well you can't. Not everything. To know everything means to collapse the illusion you cling to. When your feeling lost just ask yourself: where do you really think you are right now?'

I get chills just writing that!

I got this vibe from the original post aswell

I immediately thought it must be about a drug or recreational drug use. The thought also came up that this "thing" could be a chrystallisation of the dmt experience, and the "agents" dont want you to have this experience, but i think it more likely deals with other drugs and attatchment, because the "thing" seems to be not such a good thing (if it is really rotten underneath) so this makes me think more of destructive drug use than the dmt experience.

Either way thanks for reporting your experience and i hope you get somewhere with it, keep us posted.

Fantastic post Global! I've just watched the video you speak of and I found it fascinating. His lucidity during the experience is bizarre, as whenever I've smoked salvia I've been more or less paralysed and unable to talk or even move. Though I have experienced this 'rolling up' of reality however for me it was terrifying and it looped an infinite number of times to the point where I thought I was trapped - which interpreting from TVSuat's experience is perhaps significant in that it was trying to show me how fixated I am on this reality staying as solid and real as it feels.




This seems to fit in with the knowledge I feel I have gained from psychedelic experiences and other sources. Though being a very spiritual person I find the idea of our being on Earth a mistake unlikely and strongly believe we are all here for a reason. Perhaps it is the attachment of our astral, mental and etheric bodies to our physical body (and thus our brain's receiving capabilities) that confine our consciousness to such a narrow scope. Is it this being 'trapped' in the physical body that limits our level of consciousness, and creates the illusion that we are cut off from hyperspace and the universal consciousness. It is only by retuning the brain's extrememly limited way of receiving information with psychedelics that we are able to just begin seeing the universe for what it actually is. I found your analogy of the friend playing the video game was great, as when the elves make gestures to me it certainly feels like they are trying to distract me from something else I'm trying to focus on and as a result never get the message they seem to be trying to relay.




Once on a high dose ketamine trip I had a NDE where I was shown that everything I perceive as reality is in fact just the externalisation of my own thoughts and ideas of what reality should be like. This truly terrified me as I believed my friend who was sat next to me didn't actually exist and nothing actually existed, an that it was all just a projection of my own mind. It told me to imagine my friend doing something, like picking up his phone or making a funny noise, so I did and everything I imagined happened at the exact time I imagined it. It was like clockwork I could completely manipulate the environment around me with just my thought. I was convinced that nothing was real and that everyone I've ever known were just parts of myself. I then read a lot about 'universal oneness' and it helped explained this phenomenon I experienced. Though it still scares me to think about it as I/we are so convinced that we are separate to everything that the idea of everything being a part of us is too much to process. I did bring something positive from this experience though which was that I became aware that my thought patterns did ultimately affect my reality. For example if I began thinking angrily about things, it would draw more events to me that made me feel angry. Similarly if I kept my thought patterns positive particularly towards how I feel about myself, it seemed to draw positive self affirming events to me. Then I started to wonder maybe the ket was just messing with me! Though I haven't taken ket for a long time now and the effect still persists....

I'm flattered to receive credit for that post, but alas it wasn't I who posted it.

Glad you enjoyed TVSuat's videos they are curious if nothing else.

I understand that we all want to believe we are here for a good reason but to play the role of devil's advocate in this post, I'm not so sure all the evidence points to that as a fact. I don't want to end up coming off as a negative person or sounding like I hate my life or something, I really love my life here on Earth, but part of me wonders if that's the point I'm missing, like that's the giant cosmic joke that all the ancient mystics understood that we don't seem to get.

Being a spiritual seeker myself, I've deeply studied the ancient mystery traditions and their spiritual figureheads. Of course they all have their differences, but one theme that seems to come up again and again in their teachings is an almost prescribed departure from being human. Jesus taught his disciples to 'leave everything you have and follow me'. He called his disciples away from their families and jobs. He rebuked a man for complaining that he couldn't follow Jesus at that moment because he needed to bury his father, to which Jesus replied (rather heartlessly if taken at face value) 'let the dead bury their own dead'. Legends state that on the Buddha's quest for enlightenment he walked away from his father's kingdom, his wife, and his newborn child to pursue the spiritual path. Indeed most ancient spiritual teachings say that the life of the sage is a path of loneliness. Shamans supposedly keep out of most of the affairs of their village and live a life of seclusion except during certain ceremonies or rites of passage. I could go on with this but I think you get the point.

These seem like odd things for a truly spiritual person to do or recommend, at least to me. If we are here for a specific purpose, why the ambiguity with what that is exactly? Why don't they just tell us why we were put on Earth if there really was a good reason? I've spent a good many years contemplating ANY good reason for life on earth and the only thing that resonates deep in my soul is this idea like I'm supposed to figure it out. Like life is a puzzle, truly a game like many of us realize once we breakthrough the veil. If it's a game, then that means there's an objective. To me, the objective seems to be to figure it out... something that's right in my face but I don't see it just yet. I get the feeling like all the laughter and tricks the entities play on us in hyperspace are sort of like an inside joke for them all. Like they seem to tease me and say 'oh, you're getting warmer... warmer still... no wait backup your a little colder... aw now your ice cold try again!'

The closer I get to just saying 'this life isn't important at all! It's like a video game and that's the joke!' is the warmer i feel I am to the truth. Consequently it actually improves my life a million fold, which adds to my suspicion that I'm actually onto something other than psychosis. For instance, when I see someone get upset about something at work, it's hard to do anything other than chuckle (maybe that's why the Buddha is always shown to be smiling). Losing someone in my life used to throw me into spirals of depressive rage, but now I simply let them go with a relaxing breath, reminding me that nothing in this life is permanent; nothing is ever yours to keep, only to borrow. I guess, for me, embracing a nihilistic viewpoint of life on Earth actually helped me break down all the walls in my life that kept making me so miserable. Like Terance used to say about psychedelics, they are boundary dissolving agents. After awhile of your boundaries getting thrown out the window, it becomes a chore to keep them up so I tend not to. I just embrace all of life with a sense of love and wonder.

I guess to close this longer-than-I-intended rant, embracing the pointless temporality of physical life paradoxically ended up showing me the not-meaning of it all. That has been the most liberating thing about the psychedelic experience for me. Not wanting a meaning to life leaves me just wanting to live it for what it is, however temporary it might be.

Of course, this is all just speculation and my own personal path

Interesting stuff Tek, very interesting. That should go in the "religious views" thread. You should check it out if you haven't already.

I sometimes wonder if "profound" is really just another illusion, like there really is no higher purpose. Like we are here to extract precious metals, and nothing more, naptha on the sludge so to speak.

Well put! I realise now I should have stopped being so stubborn and let go of this beautiful thing awhile ago. I realise now that this 'thing' represented DMT itself. Please refer to my new thread for the full story into why I'll never be smoking DMT ever again. I WILL NEVER DO DMT EVER AGAIN. Beware dark and hostile forces...