Phalaris as I suppose grows everywhere and I remember someone mentioning that it would be a good material for beginners extractions (but be careful boys, it probably contains gramine and definately 5-me-o-dmt, evalueted by A. Shulgin with a ++++ )

Phalaris appears in summer, not earlier in northen countries. There are many lookalikes that show up in spring.
The grass grows in bunches (not sure about how apropriate the term is... you probably understand, many stems from one place, not scattered across roadsides)

I have some pictures that i will add (can I post these below the text? Im not sure if just writing [img]/directory would work).

Jim will try extraction with sodium carbonate/acetone very soon :idea:

How do you plan on removing gramine?

It is not confirmed that there is gramine. Imo one should use little heat and be alright. Just dont consume orally.

SWIM has a potential A/B Phalaris arundinacea extraction going on right now. It reports that the Naphtha looks slightly yellowish, compared to the dark red/brown of its previous misidentification of Dactylis glomerata, which is the grass most commonly mistaken for Phalaris arundinacea.

It used citric acid, lime and naphtha. If it goes well it will also try with lye and xylene.

For smoking, it will use a vape set at 200 - 250C to prevent partaking of gramine, which boils at 294C.

"It is not confirmed that there is gramine. Imo one should use little heat and be alright. Just dont consume orally."

^been there done that. Not good enough..and there is more than just gramine in there..what about hordenine?
Full spectrum extracts are not pleasant to smoke when it comes to this grass..there are some less than ideal alkaloids in there, whatever they are.

another thing here again and again and again when these threads come up is the issue of oxides. Most of the tryptamines in leafy sources are oxides, so you need to make sure you have a solvent that deals with that, or do zinc reductions. Otherwise you wont really get a reliable idea of what is in there. Pointless to use naptha IMO unless you do the reduction first.

I have collected, extracted and smoked the porducts enough times now from arundinacea to know that it wont be that easy. On one occasion I experienced a trip similar to what is reported on 5meoDMT, and it hit me hard, but there was some lingering aftereffects that felt more like speed than psychedelic tryptamines and it is something I would try to avoid in the future.

" unless you do the reduction first"
Please explain.

you need to get some zinc and reduce the oxidized tryptamines with it. You mix them together to catalyze the reaction. If you dont do that on say a plant like psychotria, or other leafy tryptamine sources, and you pull with naptha you probabily wont end up pulling much at all since naptha will not pull oxides. So, you can use xylene or limonene but then you end up pulling all this other stuff as well that you dont want in there. See how this is not really so easy? Others have tried it and there have been many threads on the topic. It is something that does need to be explored becasue there is something interesting in the grass, just the stuff is freaking hard to get out unless you own a sublimator.

"It reports that the Naphtha looks slightly yellowish"
If it was an STB, could be some remaining plant meterial. Please post how did the parttaking go.

"You mix them together to catalyze the reaction"
As i see it, Zn desoxydises freebase alkaloids, right? It doesn't react with NaOH, right?

The zinc should be mixed with the alkaloids in an acidic solution, not basic. Then filtered to remove the zinc, then based.

Im pretty sure gramine has been confirmed in Phalaris arundinacea but I might be wrong, im trying to find a paper Ill post back in a few minutes

By the way, according to merck index (which can be wrong at times but is generally good info), gramine is insoluble in pet ether (= naphtha), so naphtha pulls and/or naphtha re-x could potentially eliminate gramine. Would be interesting to test this further coupled with some analysis, at least some TLC/colorimetric and see what we can find out. Anyways lets keep each other informed on any developments..


edit: heres the paper I meant

http://www.sciencedirect...e/pii/S0031942200944327

apparently there is an inverse relationship between gramine and dmt in phalaris arundinacea (though they claim this cant be generalized yet, needs further testing) .. So gotta find the right genetics


btw frac, according to merck index hordenine is also practically insoluble in naphtha

With citric acid, lime and naphtha SWIM appears to have isolated a clear oily substance that solidifies in the freezer and melts quickly. Is this the oxide? I heard it will break down to a reasonably active substance when heated, so it goes into the vape once it stops smelling like solvent.

did you try to re-x it?

I remember a few mentions of such processes, but I'm not sure which apply. Can I bother you for a link?

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/FAQ

question 4.18

tell us the results please

Hmm... It says it should be a yellow oil. This is completely colourless and there's very little of it, so a test must be in order.

SWIM puts exactly 1ml, half of the yield, in the vape and heats it to 252C. Starts to sizzle at ~100C and condensation builds up. Whisps of heavy fumes falling to the bottom of the vape.
Doesn't really taste like anything but water vapor, perhaps a hint of pine, like a sauna. It seems to have been water... even if SWIM is feeling slightly warm and sweaty. How embarrassing. >_<

Next up is the lye/xylene tek. I really hope I didn't find a new grass to mistake for Phalaris.

care to post pics of the grass? What should be yellow oil?

did you try the re-x?

Didn't take pictures of it, sorry. Didn't re-ex it since there was so little of it and I suspected it was not the DMT oxide (which should have been yellow).

Its Ph meter hasn't arrived yet so maybe SWIM didn't use enough lime, or then the lime is somehow neutralized. For the lye extraction currently in progress SWIM will add, chill the container & repeat it until it no longer heats up.

Sorry for the double-post;

Any advice on whether to use vinegar or citric acid to salt the extract out from the xylene?

Another question. I vaguely remember, but I have read it somewhere that concentration of alkaloids would go up at dusk or dawn.
Due to low content Jim would have to do anything in his power to get something out of the plant. (on his quest for Zinc )

Any suggestions when to harvest?