In another thread on this forum there was spoken about things (like DOB) being sold as LSD, that aren't LSD.
Where i live (netherlands) in the past (i haven't taken LSD now for quite a few years) LSD sold, was of pretty consistent quality though.
There are a few things typical for LSD, that make it distinguishable from other substances.
1-When you take it as a blotter, it's psychedelic effects start to kick in about an hour later. Not 30 minutes, and definately not much longer than an hour. You most certainly will be tripping within 80 minutes and it will absolutely not take any longer. If you have a full or an empty stomach doesn't make a difference in how long it takes before it starts to work (unlike with many other substances).
2-When it starts to work you gradually become aware of this. There is no sudden flash or rush, like with some other psychedelics.
3-The psychedelic effects will last for about 8 to 12 hours, depending on the dosage. There will be some after effects but it will certainly be over within 18 hours.
4-there is no hangover, and mostly you feel quite well afterwards, reborn even.
5-Physical symptoms do not increase much with higher doses. Basically there are very few fysical symptoms to start with. It may seem as if your breathing or heartrate is going faster or that you're sweating a lot, but this is usually only perceived that way. Heartrate, breathing and sweatsecretion usually are not much increased at all.
You can practiccaly not take an LSD overdose. I have seen a guy taking 25 blotters in one night. when you take too much, you will probably feel you are going insane, but you don't go unconscious and you won't have to be hospitalized or something.
6-when you take more of it, the increase in effects becomes less; the difference between 1 and 2 blotters is bigger than the difference between 2 and 3.
7-there's a cross tolerance with mushrooms and tolerance builds up extremely quick. When you take the same amount the next day it feels as if you've taken less then half of what you've taken the day before.
8-There is no real naussea or sickness. When you take LSD you are even more resistant to things like motion sickness. You could easily take 5 milkshakes and then do a very wild rollercoasterride, without becoming sick, even if you are usually very sensitive for motion sickness.
9-there is often a sort of 'stroboscope' feeling; you feel like time is not going 'smoothly' but in short flashes.
10-allthough mushrooms and DMT do feel different then LSD, LSD ,mushrooms and DMT do have things in common. It is certainly recognizable as a tryptamine. Mushroom and DMT visuals usually have more depth and are much more colourfull, but the nature of mushroom and DMT visuals is very much the same as with LSD. With LSD, visuals are mostly seen in red and green. other colors occur less(not that they don't occur at all, but red and green are often dominant).
11- during LSD trips, it often feels as if your thoughts go faster then you can follow them, but you remain rational. People do not jump from tall buildings, thinking they can fly, for instance.
12- it is almost impossible to fall asleep when on LSD. Often, when the effects are no longer noticeable, it is still dificult falling asleep.
13- despite of this, LSD is not a very strong stimulant, nor is it sedating. whether you feel more active or more passive, depends much on your mood and it can change during the trip. hyperactivity or extreme drowsyness do not occur.
14- memory is usually not affected much. you may feel incapable of performing complex tasks, but it is not impossible. Only with extremely high doses, something like '99:3-5+14-9+8-1:2' becomes an impossible task (and even then i think when you would realy try, you will still get it right).

do you experience any form of "taste hallucination"

i think i may have read that thread about DOB vs LSD,

somewhere wasn't there a distinction between an actual metallic taste with DOB and a taste hallucination that is possible with LSD?

i have had 3 drops of liquid LSD on my hand and experienced an immediate sensation in my mouth..more like the whole nasal/mucosa region... a sudden change in perception, but not really having a noticeable effect until about an hour later. (and that could just be my awareness of what i expect to happen)

in my somewhat limited experience i would say i could identify with most of those statements.

I'd agree with most of those statements above about real LSD. SWIM has used LSD since he was a teenager, perhaps a total of 1000 times in his life. He knows exactly what nearly pure LSD is like, and knows he can’t get it anymore.

Look at this statement on Erowid:


That statement from Erowid is old and that sort of thing is on the rise. Where I am, you can no longer get real LSD its nearly all actually DOB or other similar less illegal chemicals. What's really stupid is that nearly all of the LSD substitutes are more dangerous and more toxic than LSD. By clamping down on LSD production, governments have merely caused the rise of the use of more toxic LSD substitutes. When will they learn that you cannot get rid of demand for spiritual and mental enlightenment? Where there is a will there is a way.

Check out this site which shows blotter acid available that was believed to contain no LSD. Many were believed to be DOB, DOM, 2CI, etc.

http://www.blotterart.net/gallery/album40

Some people really like DOB and others hate it. SWIM HATES IT! Anything that lasts longer than 12 hours is something SWIM will never ever intentionally ingest. That stuff is all over the place now. I've seen people get locked up from taking too much DOB. If you take enough, you'll trip for several days.

Imagine thinking you bought LSD, taking it Sunday morning knowing the trip will be over in about 8 hours, and then 14 hours later at night you’re still tripping hard and you can’t sleep. You spend many hours tripping like crazy, and then it’s Monday morning and you need to go to work on Monday, but you’re too tripped out to even think of driving. Your boss calls you on the phone asking where the hell you are and you can’t understand what he’s saying and so you get fired because you couldn’t make that very important meeting with the head of Wal-Mart that you were supposed to take care of first thing Monday morning but forget all about it because you were tripping so hard on DOB!

A DOB trip can last many times longer than LSD, even several days. If you’re going to sell DOB, be honest about it. Tell people its DOB and they might not be back to normal in several days after taking it. Don’t pretend it’s LSD. You can seriously ruin someone’s life by doing so.

Look at some quotes of users who bought LSD that was actually DOB

Ron:
Was DOB around 30 years ago? 'cause reading your account sends chills up my spine like dejavuealloveragain.

I 'member once staying up for three days on "LSD" and thought I would never come down. I think I even slept and woke up still completely in the zone. I knew eventually it would wear off, but it might have been terrifying for some types of people.

Maybe I never had *real* LSD as a kid.

But whatever THAT was, it was intense and for me the duration more annoying than frightening, I was a student and did try to attend classes during the whole experience. Hey, I was taking Physics, Astronomy and Philosophy after all. Not such a stretch to do that tripping; nothing like the *workworld* I inhabit M-F now. We smoked pot and played chess in the student lounge. <<nostalgia>>
Half of my professors were probably indulging so it was not too hard to fake *normal.* I cannot imagine having to try that today.
ARGH!

look at this quote from that same site from a guy talking about taking LSD that was really DOB

Yes. DOB was invented in 1967 and was shortly afterwards released as LSD all over the place. To this day, it is still commonly sold as LSD. This is rather unfortunate.

LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) is the closest thing to LSD in existence and 100% natural. If you’re acid in low doses doesn’t feel like low doses of LSH, it isn’t LSD. LSH is easy to produce by simply mixing LSA with acetaldehyde in acidic water. Anyone with HBWR seeds and peppermint tea can make it out of LSA by simply mixing the powdered seeds with peppermint tea. LSA + acidic water + acetaldehyde makes LSH. Peppermint tea works because it is acidic and supplies lots of acetaldehyde. Sherry wine also works instead of peppermint tea. In low doses LSH feels exactly like low doses of LSD. But in high doses it causes side effects and is unpleasant.

Can you elaborate? are you suggesting no real LSD exists anywhere at all?

Is this really as easy as powdering seeds and mixing with peppermint tea? do you recommend LSH over LSA?

does this alter the potential nausea that can be experienced with HBWR?

Didn't read the whole thread.

But this LSA + peppermint/mint is REALLY nice!

...and yes, it helps with the nausea, tho I never had any anyways...

are you SEROIUS pal this all sounds bollocks. How big is gonna be conversion of this weird minty pseudoreaction, you must be joking. How is gonna interact by acid activated acetaldehyd( quite reactive substance)with highly POISONOUS ergotoxin, it would perhaps lead to some stronger poison or even carcinogen.:idea: This alkaloid acompanied LSA in all sort of seeds ingested by ILPT and could be separeted only via chromatography. Because of ergotoxin, ILPT cannot eat anymore seeds, his tummy just can`t withstand it.

wow, i didn't even know that shit existed, now i realise that's what i had a few weeks ago! Took ages ( bout 3 hrs) to come on, lasted ages (bout 16-20 hours), felt real different to most other trips, had real dark visuals, and every time i smoked weed for the next 2 weeks felt like i was tripping again! It wasn't entirely unpleasant, but was the closest thing i had to a 'bad' trip (which was probably mostly due to set and setting but interesting to know, nonetheless).

Also it tasted real strong, and had the muscle tension too. From the blotter art website above, i found the one it was we took, link below...


http://www.blotterart.net/galle...40/2768DOB_blotter_front

I would definately like to know next time if it's LSD i'm taking or not, but the guy & girl who gave it to me did say they tripped for about 18 hours on this stuff, so there's a clue for next time...

-Ron:

Theoretically of course(I personally have no seeds nor peppermint but this is intriguing and I am curious)How much powdered HBRW seeds would be recommended for a mild/medium beverage *dose*?

Funny thing, I don't drink alcohol much at all, but I do like sherry sipping especially with Tapas. Usually have some cooking sherry in the cupboard too for stir-fry. YUM!

Thx for your help - FM

ok i just ground up 5 HBWR to a near powder,

put in tea cup, half water, half sherry.

it will be filtered and drunk in an hour or so. this sounds really interesting

1 fresh peppermint tea bad is enough for the reaction. It contains hundreds of times the amount of acetaldehyde needed for the reaction. Let the powdered seeds sit about 5 minutes or so in the hot tea, then strain out the seeds. That's all that's needed. According to others, sherry wine also works, but SWIM never tried that. SWIM did try rum and that worked. 20 ml of rum is more than needed for a very large dose. Basically any liquid that is acidic and high in acetaldehyde works. Peppermint works best because there's no alcohol to dull the effects of the LSH.

SWIM tried this many times and so have others. Most people used peppermint oil, but peppermint tea works just fine.

LSH is only nice in small doses. High doses cause side effects. Don’t take large doses. If you take a large dose you’ll experience shortness of breath, anxiety, cold numb fingers and toes, and other unpleasant side effects. LSH is about as potent as LSA. LSA is a sedative, while LSH is a mild stimulant like LSD and more psychedelic like LSD. The difference between the feeling of LSA and LSH is very big.

Some HBWR seeds are naturally high in LSH, but most aren’t. The LSH in the seeds degrades over time into LSA and acetaldehyde and the acetaldehyde evaporates away leaving behind just LSA.

You cannot dry LSH or store it for very long, or it will degrade back into LSA and acetaldehyde.

The main difference between LSH and LSD are the side effects and duration, and LSD is more visual. Other than that they feel nearly identical on the body and mind. LSD peaks after about 3 hours and lasts 8-12 hours. LSH peaks after about 4 hours and lasts about 6 hours. With LSH you only want to take small doses. At moderate doses it starts causing unpleasant side effects. At high doses the side effect ruin the experience.

So don’t rush out thinking LSH is the next best thing. The side effects at moderate doses are not pleasant, so you can never reach a full psychedelic state with LSH without getting lots of side effects. While with LSD you can take massive amounts and experience almost no side effects.

SWIM never tried sherry, but other have with success. SWIM tried rum, which is also high in acetaldehyde. He used 20 ml of rum, but finds that the alcohol messes up the experience of the LSH. So SWIM always uses 1 tea bad of peppermint tea in 1 cup of hot water instead. That's enough for any amount of seeds. Peppermint tea contains hundreds of times the amount of acetaldehyde needed. Other times, SWIM has used 4 drops of peppermint oil instead. That’s more than enough for a massive dose of seeds.

Yes, I'm serious. Just google the following and you’ll see I’m serious by copying and pasting the following line exactly into google and press search:

“lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide” acetaldehyde

LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) is a condensation product of lysergic acid amide (found in HBWR seeds) & acetaldehyde (found in peppermint tea) that can be produced by simply mixing the two in an acidic solution. The reaction is rapid if there’s an abundance of acetaldehyde. This is why it works so well when peppermint tea is used. Peppermint tea is acidic and contains lots of acetaldehyde, many more times than you need, so the reaction happens in a few minutes.

It would be best to do it with pure LSA and pure acetaldehyde in acidic water, but that's too hard to come by for most people so most people use HBWR as a natural source of LSA and sherry, rum, or peppermint as a natural source of acetaldehyde.

I didn’t believe it myself until SWIM and his friends tried it.

Keep in mind that LSH produces unpleasant side effects if you take moderate to high doses. To some extent chocolate can counteract the side effects. Chocolate (cocoa) contains theobromine which causes vasodilation and bronchial dilation. The main side effects of LSH are vasocontriction and bronchial constriction (neither LSD nor LSA cause bronchial constriction), the exact opposite side effects of theobromine. The side effects of LSH kick in really strong right after the peak and last long after the psychedelic effects have faded (sometimes until the following day). SWIM recommends drinking several cups of hot cocoa during and after the trip.

Well! Why am I not surprised to hear AGAIN from yet another intrepid explorer that the illegal options like LSD trump the legal choices like HBWR etal for both aesthetic reasons and regarding mental hygiene/safety.

This is a crime, folks. But I am preaching to the choir, aren't I?

(Will keep an open mind, and hopefully the brains won't drip out on the floor. But you know what? Though I respect the AyA tradition with ALL MY HEART, and love BRASIL [obrigada e te amo muito e beijos, meu amigos Cariocas!] IMHO it is simply WRONG for people to think entheogenic experience is invalid unless it makes you barf or is otherwise downright TOXIC)

5 seeds, w/sherry and fresh crushed peppermint leaves, 5 seeds seems to be a "small-ish" dose from what i understand, so we will see about side effects. the seeds are whole unskinned and of an unknown age. they seemed to be the moist inside, they appeared fresh.

filtered out most of the pulp to give a very orange bitter brew. tastes like a potion!

brought to hot in a double boil and set to cool to room temp. (only because i read later to have it hot, not cold)

and i think i am going to go draw in the woods or something.

bioassay in progress

packed back pack and snacks, ate only one egg and some raw greens this morning with beets. and one peice of bread that i made from scratch (amaranth and wholewheat)

woke up at 10:30 fully slept. i feel healthy

seeds at 12:30

1:30 smoked joint.

i feel like i forgot something, but its just paranoia, lol. i feel different.

leaving on bike @ 2 (now-ish)

Hey, good luck and enjoy your experience histones!

well ive triped over 3 days be for
but i figured it was good lsd and a massave dose over 2 of them
the shit i was getting back then even got a write up in high time s
(i figure it was the same folks for location and never getting any more for about a year before the write up thay got busted )this was in the early 90s for a bout a 4 ? year period
it came on in 30 min to an hour
had a metalic tast
but the toung couldnot tast it make sense ?
if you wanted to trip the next day youd have to bouble dose at least
it pased the black light test as well
do these other chems do that ?

this all just has me woundering

at any event havent been able to get any fake or real for ever now
and lsa is no good imo