This post is in no way an attempt to refute claims made by others about the new water tek. I just have some questions in my mind as to weather it is a viable option to clean spice extraction. If this tek does work and the results are anywhere close to what the yeild of this bark has proven to be in the past, I am going to do a side by side comparison of this tek to a simple A\B extraction, but thats later on down the road.

I would like to thank those who laid the ground work for this tek especially Wanderer.

I am going to attempt to get results following Wanderer's tek as it has been outlined.

The DMTea Tek
Tools of Ye Trade
* Water
* Plant Material for Extraction
* A Saucepan
* Lye (Or Pickling Lime or maybe Na2CO3? Stick with lye until these are confirmed)
* Coffee Filters
* Love!

Ye Process for Glory!

Step One
So you're going to want to grab a saucepan of sufficient size, and tenderly pour some tasty plant material into it. Throw the pinky-finger out for good measure. After this, pour some water into the saucepan and, with the aid of a classy tea-time spoon, stir it up. Now put it on some heat and bring to a boil. Be careful not to let it boil over (like SWIM did!). If it's MHRB, it's going to smell a bit funny, so make sure you're cooking Indian food at the same time if you have suspicious roommates -- maybe some delicious curry... mmm!

Step Two!
After the tea has been brewing for some time (30-60 minutes should do), let it cool off a bit and let the plant material settle. Now pour off the water through a coffee filter and collect the delicious tea in a separate container. This should separate out the particulates and any oils. If its MHRB, it's going to be a nice purple-mahogany color. The filtering process can take a long-time, so make sure you have a nice book to read. After it's filtered, boil it down to about a quart or so (or more, depending on how much MHRB you used). I'd say 150g/quart is good, but whatever volume you choose, it should be of low enough viscosity to be able to be filtered easily. The heat shouldn't damage any of the tastiness in the Tea at this point since they are still in their natural salt forms.

Step Three
After it's been boiled down nicely, let it cool. Filter again if you'd like (SWIM didn't). Now take this remaining fluid and carefully add some lye. You will notice that it immediately makes the fluid turn opaque and a cream color, but stir it up and it will turn black (for MHRB). Keep adding lye until it's really nice and dark blackish-brown (or until no more cream-color forms when it's added).

Step Four
After adding some lye, you will notice some strange layer separating from the fluid, which almost looks like oil. Do not be alarmed, this is merely the tastiness coming out of the tea. The hydroxides break the salt-form of the tastiness into its freebase, which is insoluble with water. So now put the lye-tea somewhere pretty cool (not freezing) like the refrigerator (SWIM used his basement). Let it sit for a few days (2-3 days for SWIM). You will notice crystals forming out of the "oily" layer that formed on top of the tea after the lye was added. After the crystals are pretty well formed (.5-1cm across), you're ready for the next step.

Step Five
Now take the crystally tea and pour it through another coffee filter. This time the crystals will be trapped in the filter. After most of the blackish liquid has drained out and you are left with dirty-looking crystals. Fear not! To clean them, simply get fresh, clean water and drip it over the crystals (slowly). An eyedropper works well for this. None of the tastiness will be lost since the crystal structure is fairly robust so long as the water isn't superheated. This will clean all the lye-filled coffee-looking tea from the crystals, and they should be clear-to-yellow in color.

Now simply take the coffee filter and let it dry. Your extracted crystal magic is now ready!



The process was started today. I put 100 grams if high quality purple inner MHRB into a small stainless steele pot. I put just enogh water in the pot to completely cover the bark. The bark is now at a simmering boil. I will leave it to boil for exactly :90 minutes.

I will make updates to this step by step as they happen.

I welcome any and all coments and suggestions to help make this a successful extraction.

Im ready for some finall results on this also.

I understand the desire to know definitive answers, but patience is a primary ingredient in the exploration process.

My 100g batch (I have copied down all masses, fluid volumes, times, etc) is still crystallizing. It should be done in the next day or so.

Crystallization is what takes the longest in this process. The bigger the batch, the longer it takes. It can take upwards of a week or two for large batches, but the crystals are large and relatively pure. Here are my current observations:

* Lye is to be used -- Na2CO3 and pickling lime didn't exhibit clean or efficient freebasing of alkaloids.
* Continue to add lye even after no more cream-colored streaks are produced. A pH of at least 13 should be achieved.
* Crystallization takes a long time, but simply washing them with water for some time produces clean, clear crystals.
* Yield appears to be fairly high, but I have yet to get solid numbers. Expect these within a day or two of this post.
* The process does work if one is patient and filters appropriately.

I will write up a final document when I get the final numbers. Patience is key -- nothing worth doing is ever done in haste.

-- Wanderer

Wanderer-

Thanks for the reply. I understand what you are saying about the time issues. I'm pretty excited about the tek and I decided to try my luck with it. I started with 100g this morning, I followed your guidlines to the letter and have done 2 boils that I have combined the total of the two is exactly 500ml. I will be adding the lye momentarily and we'll see what happens.
I'll add some pictures with the next post.

again,

thank you Wanderer for this ground breaking information.

respectfully

ih

Well, I think ice house (and others) is/are just trying to replicate your findings...after all its not a real discovery if it only works for one person. I look at this as the community being very interested in the new method you have written on and attempting to verify your results. Personally I look forward to having a list of yields and notes from various people trying this extraction.

OK well sorry to leave everyone hanging....

I'm beat, I gotta go to sleep and I work tomorrow.

I have completed four boils today of 100g mhrb. I combined 1&2 and 3&4. I have basified 1&2 and it is now sitting in a cool place. I am drained and done for now. I work tomorrow so I will post some a narrative of the procedure, some results, and allot of pictures. I will close for today by saying that the results I have come across each step of the way, ie the reactions when basifying, have been identical to what Wanderer posted/described. I promise a detailed accounting in a day or two.


ciao

Here's where I'm fuzzy: By crystallization, are you referring to the precipitation of product from water? Or has the precipitated product already been gathered and is drying/solidifying. If the latter is the case the process could easily be expedited by manual crystallization; in the past, SWIM has taken waxy flakes and powder and simply added drops of water to moisten it to be molded into a solid chunk by a process of repeated smearing and scraping. If the former is the case, well, that's a heck of a long time. Not to knock this technique, I'm interested to see the turn-out and more-so in what it may develop into, but simple, cheap nontoxic methods exist that can yield smokables from any amount (equipment allowing) of MHRB within a day with a bit of diligence.

I'm sure that even this method could be expedited with a few tweaks in technique, anyway; filtering and crystallization, for instance, probably don't need to take so long as they seem they have. Precipitation time should be the only limiting factor, but Ice House has demonstrated ways to speed this up for similar processes; albeit there are some major differences.

Well when one adds lye to the MHRB (or other plant matter) tea, "liquid" DMT will immediately precipitate as a hydrophobic "oily" layer that *should* float on-top of the tea, depending on the specific gravity of the solution (if enough lye has been added, it should float).

The crystallization I refer to is the process of the "liquid" DMT (which looks like oil) crystallizing into solid crystals. I expect his takes time because the DMT particulates are of such small size that they take time to re-arrange themselves into a crystal structure. If they remain in their "liquid" form, they cannot be readily filtered and cleaned. This step is therefore essential, and can take 1-2 weeks, depending on the size of the batch.

I apologize for leaving people "hanging" -- I've had some preoccupying circumstances in my daily life. But if anyone has any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I will try to answer them as accurately as possible.

-- Wanderer

Totally understandable about not having the time, but these could likely save you a great deal of time:
The 10 minutes golden wax precipitation method -> note that no filtering is necessary, just a quick freeze and fish it out.
Manual Crystallization, also in more detail -> note that the process of crystallization takes less time than the entire conversion which takes no more than an hour.

Well I spent some time away at work and was able to see the results thus far. It has been a full 48hrs and I gotta say that this tek is extremely slow going. I am going to let this sit in a cool environment,(cellar), for a week and then we will see where we are at.

I started of extracting several years ago when this web site was DMT World, at that time the Tek to do was Vovin's. I did many extractions using that Tek and it worked well. Then came the very simple STB I stuck with that for a year or two and then moved on to the BLAB and FASI and FASA/W I had great success with that and the conversions, fumarate-freebase conversion even though there are more steps they are relatively easy. The last year I have gone back to the simple A/B. Soak it a few days in vinager and then STB, pull with bestine, evap or freeze precip. DONE. I have no budget constraints and lots of bark and I have confidence in the quality of end product. I'm not concerned about inpurities in my final product.

I wanted to say all this because I wanted to emphasize how much of an absolute INEFFICIENT PAIN IN THE ASS this water tek really is. This is just my opinion. I mean no disrespect to Wanderer and those who have chosen this method of extraction. You have my utmost respect for the patience and dedication you demonstrate by doing this. Boiling and filtering and and reducing and filtering and decanting and waiting and not seeing much in the way of results is not my cup of tea.

Yes fellow Nexians- THIS TEK IS KIKKING MY ASS! I understand the physical chemistry behind it and why it works to the limited degree that it does. I must admit I dont do extractions for the enjoyment of it. I do them in search of spice. I do not see this tek as an option for those who find it difficult to obtain an acid or a solvent. This is not an easy way out of doing an extraction or a magical just add water tek. I respect those who develope this tek and I see them as purists in search of an organic safe means of extracting.

I'm not one to give up on anything. I will post the pics I have a little later today with the results I have thus far. Stay tuned. I'm in a snow storm right now and need to do some shopping.

I kinda figured....

Please take a look at my simple notes on possible ways of improving a carbonate version of this tek in the *water only* extraction thread! Plus more ideas to follow, when i get my faithful labrat to test them for me...

Well back again for a couple of fotos and info on how things are up til now.

First I wanted to mention the filtering process. After boiling the 100g of MHRB 2x for :90min I combined the two strained boils and reduced them down to just over 500ml of a dark purpleish brown tea. I used a muslin cloth tea bag to do a more fine filtration of the tea and the end product was a more light brown colored liquid, 500ml worth. Once filtered I started to basify the tea as you can see in the third and fourth pictures the reaction when basifying. Pics 5,6,7 show the transition of the tea as the ph begins to rise. You get a frothy tan cream on the surface of a dark brownish black liquid and as the ph reaches 13 it disappears. The last picture is what the basified tea looks like after 48 hours in a cellar that is 54 degrees. I can see a crust beginning to form this crust does shimmer a bit. I see that it is very small crystals beginning to form. I am very skeptical of how big they are going to get.

This tek has been added to the Changa web site as evidence against the argument that dmt extractions are profane and ecologically damaging in some way.

Ice house... thanks for doing this.

I have what is most likely a lifetime supply of spice. Most of my friend's aren't into it and I would never sell anything.

Then this water tek came out and I almost HAD to know. I do not have allot of cold storage space...so it was going to be a total pain in the ass to try.

You saved me allot of hassle....

Thanks again

OK its been a good 15 days and I'm pretty much at the point where I am ready to say -to hell with this Water Tek.

Below are couple of pics of my beaker of basified mhrb tea that has been sitting in 53 degrees for the last two weeks +. I am seeing not much in the way of any spice conversion?

As you can see in the pictures I am getting a thick crust layer. I am not getting any crystal formations on the crust layer.

Now a bright point here! I believe that the crust is DMT. It has a wonderful floral boquet. It looks a little like a crustified layer of spice.

I have no problem leaving this container in the cellar for a year. I dont think thats going to make much of a difference. I believe it is where it is and thats about as far as its gonna go without some outside intervention.

I feel I have three options at this point-

1 I can redesolve the crust using my magnetic stirrer hotplate and then pull it with bestine. Probably pulling a solid 1.5 grams

2 I can attempt to remove the crust and wash it with cold water and see what we got? Then I could warm up and pull the rest with solvent.

3 I can leave it in the cellar for a year.

I am open to suggestions, I'll try whatever you guys want to see.


I see no more info or updates on the other water tek posting. I was really hoping for a report on results, many asked for results and that post has been silent.

OK fellow Nexians what next?

Enjoy theses pics they are 15 days into the process.

Thanks for the effort Ice House! I would say try to manually get that crust and wash it repeatedly with water (or dilute sodium carb solution), then dry and see the weight.. I would also say try to pull the basified liquid left behind with warm bestine or similar and see if you get anything out of the soup (so we see how much is left behind by water precip).

Hope it all turns good!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, what E said. Dry/wash the crusts ...are they easy to work with? Yield?
Pull the rest - yield?
Experiment is concluded.
Thanks, Ice House.
L

You got it.

I'll detail the results and post.

ih

Yeah that's the same crust I had on my lye batches. Looks identical.

I chose the wash with water route and ended up with what's pictured.

That 192mg is all I ended up recovering and was from 1/4 of the batch so essentially I recovered 192 milligrams from 25grams of bark. With better technique I guess that could be improved.
The other batch I just recovered with solvents.

I haven't yet bio-assayed but might get around to it tonight. Been months since I've been to hyperspace so I guess it's about time.

EDIT: I vaporized some and it smells just as it should. Leaves behind a yellow/brown residue. Tasted just the tinest bit and it was really harsh. Like I said it's been awhile for me but that was much harsher than I remember. I don't think this is something I would even want to try at a full dose now. Might try to clean it up a bit more.