So recently "molley" (supposedly pure MDMA) has been circulating in my area in plastic vials of water. After trying it a few times and reading the effects I was completely sure it was pure mdma. It produced the exact same effects! I recently learned that it is actually mdai. I don't know if mdma exists out there. But this stuff is indistinguishable to me and apparently to lab rats.

Could also possibly be methylone.

MDAI is 100% definitely discernible from MDMA. Methylone is much closer..

Really? I know the guy that makes them and it's definitely mdai. I'm not doing methylone because apparently he did too much and ended up in a mental ward for a day.

MDAI has no where near the level of activity of MDMA and BK-MDMA, completely different league.

So you would recommend bk-mdma?

btw, did you mean bk-MBDB?

Bk-mdma is methylone

I wouldnt touch any of that crap, every mdma copy substance is pure poison... seems like the effects get worse for every new one as do the side effects.

If you can´t find the real deal look harder or something.

Are empathogens effective at relieving social anxiety? SWIM needs to work on his people skills, and MDMA is impossible to find. Does this substance make one feel talkative? Does it make it easier to trust others?

Like I said, I thought it was mdma. I was at a party and I met every single person. Even got a few numbers. I'm usually a shy person. This will make you the life of the party for sure.

MDAI is devoid of neurotoxicity, as is MDPV. MDMA and BK-MDMA are, however, neurotoxic. They're all very different drugs.

MDMA's neurotoxic effects have always been a concern for me. Thanks for the insight.

Which studies did you read on neurotoxicity ? I mean where does this MDMA neurotoxicity claim originate from ?

MAPS proclaimed MDMA "psychologically and physiologically safe" in 50-75mg amounts.

Yeah see a typical dose is over 100mg and it isn't uncommon to redose either, so that statement says very little for recreational use.

http://www.erowid.org/ch...mdma_neurotoxicity.shtml

"The issue of MDMA's neurotoxicity is very complex, including debate about what constitutes 'neurotoxicity', but almost all experts now agree that MDMA is a neurotoxin."

soulfood: Well, if I stretch that argument, everyhing is neurotoxical. And those are just the tested dose. Maybe the limit 100, 125, 150, ...

EMCDAA Annual report 2010: "The typical MDMA content of ecstasy tablets tested in 2008 was between 5 and 72 mg in the 11 countries providing data. In addition, high-dose ecstasy tablets containing over 130 mg of MDMA were reported by several countries (Belgium, Bulgaria, Germany, Estonia, Latvia, Netherlands, Slovakia, Norway)."

aloneits: Quote the whole thing " The question of what that means to users is still open, however." So the question stands, is MDMA harmful or not ? Or even more importantly under which conditions. Also this is from 2001. 10 years is a lifetime in science.

My point was that people need to read the research themselves and not go along with the mainstream just because it's easy.

MDMA is complicated, I don't believe there are black and white answers.

The question you posed was not if it was harmful to users, the question you asked was about neurotoxicity. Also 10 years is a lifetime in science, and still no one is claiming MDMA isn't neurotoxic.

There is another study if you want @ http://www.springerlink....351l2n1517t/fulltext.pdf although I'm not even sure what you are arguing..?



Except every piece of research suggests it is neurotoxic.. sometimes the mainstream is mainstream because it is correct.

I'm not saying MDMA doesn't have uses in medicine.. but it *is* neurotoxic according to *all* the research done on it.. check google scholar for more studies.. it seems you are arguing just for the sake of arguing unless I am missing something

"he term neurotoxic is used to describe a substance, condition or state that damages the nervous system and/or brain, usually by killing neurons." This goes very closely with my definition of "harmful". The question would be, which studies prove the neurotoxicity of MDMA in people ? Also I don't care if MDMA is a neurotoxin also it's not harmful so those are pretty connected, I belive.

Your study: Key word "rats".

C'mon man, are you saying you checked all the MDMA research from 01 forward in 90 minutes ? Also what's wrong with my MAPS quote above ?


"Dr. Ricaurte has previously determined in primates that 2.5 mg/kg given orally once every two weeks for four months caused no significant reductions in serotonin levels.(3) He did find that significant reductions in serotonin levels in primates first occur with a single oral dose of 5 mg/kg, an amount of MDMA that some recreational users do self-administer.(4) This dose produced no reductions in most brain regions tested two weeks after administration, but there was a 21% reduction in serotonin in the thalamus and a 16% reduction in the hypothalamus. Thus, the "no-effect" level in primates for serotonin reductions is somewhere between an oral dose of 2.5 mg/kg and 5.0 mg/kg"

EDIT: I'll make things more clear in another thread.

would not recommend methylone/bk-mdma. it is so common where i live this store sells it as a bath salt that is not for consumption. all i hear is people getting ripped off at shows with this stuff. so they were trying for molly but got methylone instead to clarify. this "bath salt" at first i thought was very similar to pure mdma but the more i did it the worse i felt. for one it tastes and smells like robotussin to me (dont recomend dxm either in my opinion).

the effects are much shorter compared to mdma and is MUCH speedier and almost anxious unsattisfied feel. basically i have a few friends who are way too in to the stuff due to the availability. one time i did a medium dose of cratom and then a few hours later insuffalated approximately 100 mgs? the stuff is very fine powder hard to judge. i dry heaved outside while sweating my ass off in the cold while removing all my winter apparell which normally would have been much needed.

basically stick to molly. i have never eaten an ex tab due to the notoriety of their impurity. mdma is much more relaxed and talkative and understanding then bk-mdma/methylone. i feel like methylone is similar to what meth would feel like (dont plan on trying meth )

hope this is of use to someone

I wouldn't bet on anything, since I'm not a doctor or bio-chemist. I am going to tell you one thing...DON'T Snort any of this shit!!!.

"Holly shit, The first thing I ever snorted was mdpv. Hearing that it's relatively safe I took it in small doses. Now, this may be because I got the super pure stuff, but it eats your nose like crazy. After a couple days of use, I have permanent nasal damage. I thought maybe I was being paranoid about one side of my septum having a dimple, so I just used the other nostril and chased it with water. Well apparently this caused it to get caught in my upper nasal cavity and it tore it to shreds overnight. Luckily the damage is not to severe and it's mostly up in my nose cavity, unseen. I'm sure I would need plastic surgery if I snorted this gram, no matter how long it took. Because, as I understand, the cardalige damage is permanent.
I haven't had any problems with taking a small oral dose (diluted in water). It's more affective than Ritalin in my case. Also, it's subtle enough to keep off the compulsive re-dose."

Bummer