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Precautions with MAOIs in Aya Options
 
shishigami
#1 Posted : 11/15/2010 6:24:28 AM

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If I were to brew some up what precautions should I take in regards to diet? How long do the MAOIs last in the system? Days, Weeks, Hours?
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Apoc
#2 Posted : 11/15/2010 7:13:28 AM

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shishigami wrote:
If I were to brew some up what precautions should I take in regards to diet? How long do the MAOIs last in the system? Days, Weeks, Hours?


If you're talking about brewing up some caapi or Syrian Rue, those plants contain harmine/harmaline, and thh. Those are RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase). The reason a diet is followed for people on MAOI is because MAOI's inhibit the breakdown of tyramine. An excess of tyramine can result in hypertension, and a few other physical problems, but the main concern is hypertension enough to have a heart attack.

Here is a wikipedia snippet about RIMA's "RIMAs are displaced from MAO-A in the presence of tyramine,[1] rather than inhibiting its breakdown in the liver as general MAOIs do. Additionally, MAO-B remains free and continues to metabolize tyramine in the stomach, although this is less significant than the liver action. Thus, RIMAs are unlikely to elicit tyramine-mediated hypertensive crisis, and a special diet does not need to be so strictly adhered to, although eating excessively large amounts of tyramine-containing foods is still not advisable."

So, although it is considered safer to take RIMA's without too much concern over diet, it is still not recommended to eat certain foods before taking RIMA's. Just do a google search for MAOI diet and you'll see the common foods to stay away from. Generally, people should stay away from meats, fish, canned anything, coffee, alcohol, especially wine, and cheese. Many people here simply fast, or eat mainly grains and green veggies the day before taking ayahuasca. Physically, one probably won't feel the effects of even very large harmala doses after 12 hours. Most of the time, the noticeable effects seem to wear off after 6-8 hours. As for exactly how long every molecule of a RIMA will last in the system..... probably not more than 24 hours.
 
BananaForeskin
#3 Posted : 11/15/2010 7:16:28 AM

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All your answer are belong to us:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me....aspx?g=posts&t=8972

As ms_manic_minxx mentions therein, 24 hours before and after is the standard cautionary period as far as diet goes for aya. However, this is also generally considered to be a little extreme, given that harmalas are frequently put in the RIMA category... so keep both these things in mind.

Personally, I avoid-ish tyramine rich foods the day I'm going to drink aya, and usually try to drink on a more or less empty stomach. For me, eating a piece of cheese the morning of doesn't really hurt (if it's going to be in the evening). I usually drink about 9-10PM, having had a light dinner at 6 (which might have included fresh meat), and avoid anything very blatantly prohibited. Probably the thing to watch most is your alcohol and caffeine consumption; especially coffee.
I've personally never given any regard to to dietary restrictions AFTER aya, as if I was to have a hypertensive crisis I'd be able to deal with it soberly at that point, and that's never caused me any problems. Then again, after aya, eating a bunch of salami and beer isn't usually what I'm in the mood for!

For context, on the OTHER end of the spectrum, in the Amazon aya preparation can start a week or more beforehand with isolation and a strict diet, prohibiting things like salt and sex... So there you have the two extremes, find your comfortable middle!
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obliguhl
#4 Posted : 11/15/2010 7:31:18 AM

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Certain contraindicated medicines can stay in your body for weeks, so check on that too.
 
shishigami
#5 Posted : 11/15/2010 7:36:57 AM

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Thanks for the link. I somehow missed that. Ok well thats nice to know that a diet doesn't have to be too strict. I read some experience reports with 4 day fasts and the like... I just would not be able to do that.

Not drinking liq or coffee makes this even easier.

Is a hypertensive crisis just an anxiety attack?

EDIT: No medicines, do I take so no worries on that front.
 
BananaForeskin
#6 Posted : 11/15/2010 7:47:38 AM

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Sounds like you should have pretty smooth sailing, then.

A hypertensive crisis is not just an anxiety attack... hypertension is simply high blood pressure, but taken to extremes that can lead to a stroke or death. However, the only time I've heard of (don't ask me from where) death from hypertension due to ayahuasca was when someone drank some quantity of coffee near to the ceremony. Methinks it could also be an issue if you ate, say, a couple of salami and aged cheddar sandwiches with some sauerkraut and ancient whiskey an hour before the aya... however, as always, caution first; follow the guidelines and not much could go wrong. Respect the vine!

And good luck!!
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