DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 664 Joined: 07-Sep-2010 Last visit: 14-Nov-2016 Location: europe
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This new tecnology swim could use to extract spice from plant stuff is cavitation based  what is this cavitation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation  this fisical principle is used to clean items and also for extraction of compounds from plants powder. this is the tool swim need: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaningyou put your flask with your mhrb to extract into the tub of this tool and run it for some hours. The ultrasonic waves will do the job.  swim found a house's version of theese item for about 50€. no heat,no wait for days..just few hours for example this cost 39$ http://www.harborfreight...se&utm_source=nextagTz'is aná
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 06-Feb-2025 Location: Jungle
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Hey,
All sorts of different ideas regarding extractions are very interesting. It may be they turn up very useful for the suggested use, or it may be that this will give different unintended ideas that can be useful, or just the fact that we try to think 'outside-the-box' is a desirable quality.
Now whether specifically cavitation is good, effective or generally advantageous for the typical home extractor, I guess only testing can tell. Did you (or SWIY) try this in practice yet?
Isnt this similar to the Sonicator that benzyme was talking about here in the forum?
By the way, I edited the thread title, first of all taking off the caps (all our threads are just as valid and worthy of attention as all others, no need to use caps for personal attention), and also adding a specific aspect about the thread content, cavitation. Its easier for others in the future to find the information.
Hope you dont mind
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No.. that can't be...
Posts: 493 Joined: 21-May-2010 Last visit: 04-May-2024 Location: The assylum
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Ultrasonic Dismembrators or Sonicators break cell walls by applying high powered ultrasonic waves to a solution via a transducer. I believe that this causes cavitation which physically breaks cell walls. Once cell walls are broken down, there is no need to apply excessive pH in either STB or A/B extractions. This means that less undesirable products are picked up and the spice will have fewer impurities in it. Everything mentioned herein has been deemed by our staff of expert psychiatrists to be the delusional rantings of a madman who has been treated with Thorazine who is hospitalized within the confines of our locked facility. This patient sometimes requires the application of 6 point leather restraints and electrodes at the temples to break his delusions. Therefore, take everything mentioned above with a grain of salt...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 06-Feb-2025 Location: Jungle
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That sounds fine in theory. But how does it compare to normal yields in the specific case of the extractions we talk about? What are the costs and difficulties of the methods?
It could prove to be amazing! Though maybe its not really worth the trouble for mimosa extractions which are normallyso high yielding and with large surface area and little protection for the dmt in prepowdered bark. Or maybe for other extractions like cactus or other plants it will be more useful? Who knows..
Maybe its only for a selected few and not a generalizable technology for home extractors? We need people actually putting this in practice and doing side by sides to really see if its indeed worth it, better, and what are the potental problems or disadvantages that can be dealt with
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 664 Joined: 07-Sep-2010 Last visit: 14-Nov-2016 Location: europe
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endlessness wrote:
Now whether specifically cavitation is good, effective or generally advantageous for the typical home extractor, I guess only testing can tell. Did you (or SWIY) try this in practice yet?
Isnt this similar to the Sonicator that benzyme was talking about here in the forum?
By the way, I edited the thread title, first of all taking off the caps (all our threads are just as valid and worthy of attention as all others, no need to use caps for personal attention), and also adding a specific aspect about the thread content, cavitation. Its easier for others in the future to find the information.
Hope you dont mind
ok i apologise about caps lock you are right. it's sonicator yes and i'm sure will be advantageous if compared ewith simply soaking and shaking advage come from: about 1-2 hours to do COLD extraction,it could be warm but nosense couse warm water increase solubility of tannins and other bad things too. less time,less heat=less oxidation,slightly purer stuff. Almost all compounds will be extracted with this tek(it's used to bring compounds out of plant matter to do quantification analisys) low cost of the house tub (30$) and of energy too (i think house version of this tool is about 100W potency) it's very simple to use,just put the jar in the tub and turn it 'on' for a while It's a common and routine tool in any lab that works with plant matter,for expecially its saving time features.  i don't think it could have bad characteristics: it's just like shake solution 35000 times/sec with very high pressure due to the cavitation Tz'is aná
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 06-Feb-2025 Location: Jungle
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Thanks for the extra info. Still, while in theory it sounds wonderful, I would like someone to test this in practce. We all know how different theory and practice can be, at times.... Maybe the home version of the sonicator only fits small amounts of mimosa? Or maybe mimosa is usually so clean and high yielding anyways that the difference will be minimal? Who knows, only doing a side-by-side test will tell. Would be great if any of you guys were willing to try this and report back
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 664 Joined: 07-Sep-2010 Last visit: 14-Nov-2016 Location: europe
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actually i don't think it wouldn't change a lot the final weight of spice. For quantities i think it could run about 2 liters of solution for the cheapest model ( you could directly put on tub if it's just bark,water and vinegar ) noone have this tool at home? i tried lab's tool at laboratory with others plant material,but it usually works with all powdered material.. Tz'is aná
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Kalt und Heiß, Schwarz und Rot, Kürper und Geist, Liebe und Chaos
Posts: 4661 Joined: 02-Jun-2008 Last visit: 30-Apr-2022
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It's a good idea but as endlessness said, without actually trying it is really difficult to talk. I agree that it would be good energy saver if it worked as stated. I don't know about tannins, which in regular acid boils are extracted, or diffuse to be more precise. out of the plant material whether cells break or not. If you break up cells you will inevitably extract all the tannins because they will be readily available to the water medium and even if they may not be too soluble in cold water, how about filtration? They may pass through filters as is or they may make filtration a pain in the ass. Anyway, for the moment the tannin argument is not the best and we cannot really talk since nobody has tried it and compare it with the standard methods. Also, buying one and finding it doesn't really work very well or that it works no better than regular extractions plus having to have this thing around while you use it maybe twice a year is really not to much liking. EDIT: your price estimates are not really good, the low0end models with 30 euro/pound/dollars have a capacity of 500ml, a very non-realistic volume. One with a capacity of , say 3-4 litres (suitable for 250g+ extractions) bumps up to at least 100 euro/pound/dollars range. Need to calculate between salts and freebases? Click here! Need to calculate freebase or salt percentage at a given pH? Click here!
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analytical chemist
Posts: 7463 Joined: 21-May-2008 Last visit: 14-Jan-2025 Location: the lab
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i posted a thread on this a couple years ago. the water bath has poor power distribution (< 5 W/cm^2). power sonication using a titanium horn is much more effective. typical frequency is 20 KHz, which yields more powerful cavitation than 35 KHz at the same power output. the technology isn't new at all.. it was pioneered in the 50's, and was commonplace by the late 70's/early 80's. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 664 Joined: 07-Sep-2010 Last visit: 14-Nov-2016 Location: europe
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yeah! great link here man, thanks to share Tz'is aná
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 664 Joined: 07-Sep-2010 Last visit: 14-Nov-2016 Location: europe
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Infundibulum wrote:It's a good idea but as endlessness said, without actually trying it is really difficult to talk.
I agree that it would be good energy saver if it worked as stated. I don't know about tannins, which in regular acid boils are extracted, or diffuse to be more precise. out of the plant material whether cells break or not. If you break up cells you will inevitably extract all the tannins because they will be readily available to the water medium and even if they may not be too soluble in cold water, how about filtration? They may pass through filters as is or they may make filtration a pain in the ass. Anyway, for the moment the tannin argument is not the best and we cannot really talk since nobody has tried it and compare it with the standard methods.
Also, buying one and finding it doesn't really work very well or that it works no better than regular extractions plus having to have this thing around while you use it maybe twice a year is really not to much liking.
EDIT: your price estimates are not really good, the low0end models with 30 euro/pound/dollars have a capacity of 500ml, a very non-realistic volume. One with a capacity of , say 3-4 litres (suitable for 250g+ extractions) bumps up to at least 100 euro/pound/dollars range.
yeah i didn't noticed only 500 ml for 30$ Crying or very sad
tannins would be missing in solution as a colloidal solution and wouldnt' be good for filtration of course. For the practice, for a dude that do it twice a year is not worth for sure i think, sorry for almost useless thread Rolling eyes
it is good just for people doing spice in bulk i think like extracting a pound every run and doing it often---> commercial production,not really what we want ..Confused
yeah i didn't noticed only 500 ml for 30$ Crying or very sad tannins would be missing in solution as a colloidal solution and wouldnt' be good for filtration of course. For the practice, for a dude that do it twice a year is not worth for sure i think, sorry for almost useless thread Rolling eyes it is good just for people doing spice in bulk i think like extracting a pound every run and doing it often---> commercial production,not really what we want ..Confused Tz'is aná
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