SWIM’s tests show that the Triple E tech made for elemi oil also works very well for nutmeg oil. Both myristicin and elemicin are very soluble in 70% DMSO, while most of the other compounds are not. After performing the Triple E tech, much of the stoning sedative effects of the nutmeg oil are removed (this is mostly from the marijuana terpene myrcene being removed). It’s a much cleaner experience.

For those interested in the differences between nutmeg oil and elemi oil extracted with the Triple E tech, this is what SWIM finds is different:

* Nutmeg oil is more mind altering, with more “mind fuck”.
* Nutmeg oil feels rougher, not as smooth.
* Nutmeg oil lasts way longer, about 24-36 hours, elemi oil lasts about 6-8.
* Nutmeg oil has stronger visuals.
* Nutmeg oil is not as friendly, more alien.
* Elemi oil is more of a socially open experience, more like mescaline.
* Elemi oil feels cleaner, more refined, smoother, with less body load.
* Elemi oil is more euphoric with more auditory effects.

I must say that SWIM doesn’t like nutmeg oil as much as elemi oil, even after removing most of the sedating terpenes with the Triple E tech. SWIM can feel there’s a lot of elemicin present in his nutmeg oil, but the myristicin has a definite impact on the experience. Elemicin on its own is nicer, but not as visual as the elemicin + myristicin combination in nutmeg oil.

Myristicin definitely introduces more mental psychedelic effects, and feels rougher, but then it also has more visuals. I think a mix that’s low on nutmeg oil and high on elemi oil would probably be a nice combination.

While the highest dose SWIM has used of nutmeg oil is a low 0.5 ml dose (SWIM is extra sensitive to all psychedelics, his 0.5 ml dose is more like 1-2 ml for other people) extracted with the Tripe E tech, he can still tell that it’s the type of psychedelic that can cause a bad trip at high doses, somewhat like LSD and 5-MeO-DMT , because of the mind fuck present. This is something elemi oil lacks. Elemi oil feels far more comfortable, more friendly, less alien. Elemi oil is also a much more socially stimulating experience. Great for being outdoors.

Don’t get me wrong. The nutmeg oil experience is enjoyable, but SWIM prefers elemi oil. It’s more social, while nutmeg oil is more of a stay at home sort of trip. SWIM doesn’t feel like socially interacting much with nutmeg oil, but rather enjoys listening to music, watching movies, relaxing on the couch and watching faces appear in the wall, etc. With elemi oil, going outdoors feels great, being around people feels great, it’s a different sort of psychedelic.


NUTMEG OIL DOSAGE
A light trip is anything from 0.25-1 ml. The maximum doses I’ve seen used are 5 ml, and that is considered a super heavy dose, not to be used by people unfamiliar with it’s effects. The most SWIM has used in 0.5 ml.

The LD50 for nutmeg oil orally in rats comes to 2620 mg/kg. For a 75 kg adult, that comes to about 196.5 grams of oil (about 223 ml of oil). Others have suggested 100 ml is the LD50 for humans.


TRIMYRISTIN: WHY YOU SHOULD USE NUTMEG OIL AND NOT NUTMEG!
One risk of eating whole nutmeg or nutmeg powder rather than using nutmeg oil (besides the decreased side effects of the oil) is the possible development of fatty liver disease, which is caused by trimyristin. Trimyristin a major compound of nutmeg that is NOT at all present in nutmeg oil. This is an anxiogenic sedative and not good for the liver. This is the main cause of all the unpleasant effects experienced from eating nutmeg powder and whole nutmeg. This is one of the reasons why nutmeg oil is healthier and more psychedelic than nutmeg. Trimyristin is not something you want to eat a lot of. It has an XLogP3 of 18.7! Holy crap! That makes it very hard to remove from the liver.

Don’t mess around with eating large amounts of whole nutmeg or powdered nutmeg on a regular basis. The nutmeg oil doesn’t have anything near as nasty as trimyristin present in it. This is a seriously bad compound.

Since the Triple E tech extracts from nutmeg oil, there is no worry of this nasty compound being present at all.

Again, if using nutmeg, avoid the nuts, go for the oil. It's much healthier and 1000 times better, especially if you Triple E extract it (which gets rid of most of the nasty terpenes like myrcene).


THE "TOXIC" TERPENES OF NUTMEG OIL ARE ALSO IN MARIJUANA!!!
Toxic terpenes like myrcene found in both nutmeg oil and elemi oil are also found in marijuana and in high amounts!

Look up myrcene. This is one of the nasty toxins the Triple E extraction gets rid of. This is a major player in the effects of marijuana.

The following terpenes found in nutmeg oil are also found in marijuana! These are the "toxic/carcinogenic terpenes" some have posted about elsewhere. This is why nutmeg sometimes feels like marijuana. It shares more active compounds with marijuana than elemi oil.

ALPHA PINENE
CAMPHENE
BETA PINENE
SABINENE
DELTA-3 CARENE
ALPHA PHELLANDRENE
MYRCENE
ALPHA TERPINENE
LIMONENE
Y-TERPINENE
ALPHA TERPINOLENE

So put that list of supposedly toxic stuff in nutmeg oil in your pipe and smoke it! It’s in marijuana too!


Next time you get high from marijuana brownies, think about it. It contains nearly a dozen of the exact same terpenes found in nutmeg oil. That's about 1/2 of the "toxic terpenes" found in nutmeg oil. And yet people spread fear of using nutmeg oil and eat brownies like they're the healthiest high there is. WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!

MYRCENE is a proven carcinogenic terpene found in elemi oil and nutmeg oil and marijuana smoke (and hundreds of other things we eat all the time). By using the Triple E extraction tech, this toxic junk is removed from elemi oil and nutmeg oil. Myrcene is a major player in the effects of marijuana and one reason why nutmeg oil sometimes makes you feel stoned. Are people dying of cancer right and left from smoking marijuana? People are afraid of 1 ml of nutmeg oil, but will smoke a joint filled with this crap. What the heck? Politics, politics, politics!



MYRISTICIN PROTECTS THE LIVER FROM DAMAGE!
Old tests using massive overdoses of myristicin showed some liver toxicity, but pretty much all drugs do that when overdoses are taken for extended periods of time (alcohol, Advil, etc.). Newer tests using more reasonable doses show it actually protects the liver.




Hepatoprotection or antihepatotoxicity is the ability to prevent damage to the liver.

So there you go. It can PROTECT YOU from liver damage!

SWIM has been eating myristicin in his diet for ages. It's present in parsley, nutmeg, black pepper, dill weed, anise, carrot, common fennel, etc. He has NO LIVER DAMAGE AT ALL. Maybe it's been protecting his liver from damage and that's why he's so healthy.


MYRISTICIN IS LESS TOXIC THAN CAFFEINE!
Myristicin is actually less toxic than caffeine. The LD50 for it is: Oral-Rat 4260 mg/kg. The LD50 for caffeine is: Oral-Rat 192 mg/kg. Caffeine is 22 times more toxin than myristicin.

Keep up the fantastic work!
SWIM may give this a test-run

I looked up myrcene, it is widely used in perfumes and is found in lemon grass and mango's. Should we stop eating mango's too? It has been shown to be moderately dangerous by itself, but doesn't cause cancer when in perfumes according to http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient.php?ingred06=728408. . I don't think there is any evidence of it causing cancer from pot smoke. Myrcene is a potent analgesic, anti-inflammatory, and antibiotic.

so we soak our buds in dmso.....

My point is that just because something is carcinogenic in lab rats doesn't mean it's going to give you cancer. People don't take the massive overdoses the poor lab rats are forced to take in cancer screening tests. Safrole, another “carcinogen” according to lab rats is present in sassafras in large amounts, but no human has ever been found to get cancer from sassafras. People just don’t ingest that much of these compounds.

Animal lab tests always need to be looked at properly. Many of them use doses that are completely absurd just to show toxicity is possible.

The fact of the matter is that there are carcinogens in everything we eat pretty much. Oranges, applies, black pepper, parsley, etc., these are filled with known carcinogens. But they are also filled with cancer prevention compounds (things like limonene, myristicin, etc.). So these carcinogens are usually present along with cancer prevention compounds.

Look here: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf00013a020

They talk about myristicin’s use as a cancer prevention drug.

Nutmeg, elemi, and marijuana contain the carcinogen myrcene, but they also contain the cancer fighting compound limonene.

HA HA HA! That doesn't sound good at all.

Like elemi oil, and nutmeg oil, marijuana also contains limonene, and probably a few other cancer prevention compounds. So while it does contain myrcene, the cancer prevention compounds present should protect you from myrcene’s carcinogenic effects.

Thank you for clearing that up, you always impress me. I will look into that link.

~

THE ESSENTIAL OILS OFF MARIJUANA

I thought some of you might find this interesting. This is the essential oil of one batch of "Skunk Weed", a popular strain of marijuana, which SWIM has in the past smoked quite a lot of. Flowers and the upper leaflets of female or hermaphrodite plants were cut by hand and freshly steam distilled to extract the essential oil. As you can see, the main compound is myrcene.

46.5% myrcene
16.5% alpha-pinene
16.1% trans-caryophyllene
4.9% beta-pinene
4.3% limonene
2.8% alpha-humulane
1.4% beta-farnesene
0.9% caryophyllene oxide
0.7% alpha-bergamotene
0.6% selina-3,7(11)-diene
0.4% beta-selinene
0.4% alpha-terpinolene
0.4% beta-phellandrene
0.3% trans-ocimene
0.2% delta 3-carene
tr cis-ocimene



Here's the same information for nutmeg oil:

32.1% sabinene
13.6% alpha-pinene
12.9% beta-pinene
7.2% terpinen-4-ol
4.0% limonene
3.9% gamma-terpinene
2.8% safrole
2.6% myristicin
2.4% elemicin
2.3% beta-phellandrene (+1,8-cineole)
2.2% alpha-terpinene
2.2% alpha-thujene
2.2% myrcene
1.6% methyl eugenol
1.2% terpinolene
0.8% delta-3-carene
0.8% linalool
0.7% alpha-phellandrene
0.7% para-cymene
0.6% alpha-terpineol
0.5% (E)-sabinene hydrate
0.4% (Z)-para-menth-2-en-1-ol
0.4% eugenol
0.3% (E)-para-menth-2-en-1-ol
0.3% camphene
0.2% (E)-methyl isoeugenol
0.2% beta-caryophyllene
0.1% (E)-alpha-bergamotene
0.1% beta-cubebene
0.1% germacrene D


Now can you guys see why nutmeg is often compared to marijuana? The essential oil of this batch of skunk weed contains quite a bit of the same compounds found in nutmeg oil. Over half of the compounds of this batch of skunk weed are in nutmeg oil.

thanks for that info , i will be more cautious about weed now.I used to think that eating brownies would be much healthier.
I was wrong.

OK impressive work - where'd you find these constituents of "SKUNK WEED" essential oil? And (pardon my ignorance) shouldn't the cannabinoids also be present, such as what's in hash oil, which has a very viscous and sticky and beautifully aromatic characteristic? Or are they not considered part of the essential oil since they aren't removed during steam distillation? According to the wikipedia definition of essential oil: "a concentrated, hydrophobic liquid containing volatile aroma compounds from plants", the cannabinoids certainly should be a part of the essential oil of cannabis.

Also "Skunk Weed" is the result of the war on outdoor cannabis plantations; it's been selectively breeded to grow quickly, under artificial lighting, with large quantity, high potency yields. As a side active the ratios of active constituents have been significantly altered compared to the "landbreed" strains such as those grown for thousands of years in Africa and Southeast Asia and what not. Has anyone looked at the essential oils of these varieties of cannabis?

Although your work on nutmeg oil is very good, it is overshadowed by your attacks on marijuana. There have been several studies which find that cannabinoids prevent cancers, can be used to treat breast cancer, and have anti-tumoral properties. Extrapolating the results of lab tests on rats onto humans is a no-no, and referring to Myrcene as carcinogenic is misleading, since it implies it applies to humans as well.


No. Why attack marijuana? The findings from the nutmeg oil should have been enough for the post. I would recommend reading this.

I think the point is that marijuana is pretty safe although it contains the same compounds that are said to make nutmeg oil "toxic". Thus, nutmeg oil shouldn't be considered any more dangerous than smoking a bit of weed. I don't think the attack was on the safety of marijuana; quite the opposite actually. The attack was directed at the generally negative attitude toward nutmeg oil.


Great data, btw. Its always wonderful to see so much excellent information in one place. Where do you find all your data, 69Ron? I'm constantly impressed by your posts. Are there specific journals you pull from, do you do the oil analysis yourself, or is it the fruit of diligent web-searching?

Spira, I am not attacking anything. I think you are getting my point wrong. Where did I say marijuana was bad? I don't recall saying that. I'm merely pointing out that a lot of what people say is bad about nutmeg oil, also applies to marijuana because they contain a lot of the same exact "toxic/carcinogenic" terpenes. This is why the effects of nutmeg are often said to be similar to marijuana, because they share a lot of the same compounds.

If you see that as an attack on marijuana, I can't see it myself. I'm merely pointing out that the similarities between marijuana and nutmeg are huge. And a lot of what people say is "bad" about nutmeg is found in marijuana. And yet no one says anything about that. It's political. People love marijuana and don't like bad things said about it.

I'm trying to open people's minds. Marijuana is seen as this great harmless herb, and yet its hugely similar to nutmeg. It shares many of the same compounds. Yet people see nutmeg oil as some kind of toxic crap to stay away from, when it's really not. If you think I'm trying to make marijuana look bad, that's not my point one bit. I'm trying to clear up a lot of misconceptions about nutmeg oil. People see it as some kind of horrible toxic substance, when in fact it's about as toxic as marijuana is. And we all know marijuana is not very toxic. And since nutmeg oil contains a lot of the exact same things marijuana contains, why are people saying nutmeg oil is so toxic? WHY? It’s a misconception. It’s not based on facts.

lysergify,

The essential oil tests were all found using Google. None of the tests were SWIM's tests. This data is all over the place actually. Studies on marijuana essential oil have been done for ages.

The cannabinoids are terpenophenolic compounds and are not essential oils. You can't steam distill them, that's why they are not found in the essential oil of cannabis. Just like how trimyristin, a saturated fat, is not found in nutmeg oil but is found in nutmeg, it's not an essential oil, so you can NOT steam distill it out of nutmeg; while myristicin is an essential oil found in nutmeg and it can be steam distilled from it.

An essential oil is any oil that can be steam distilled out of a plant. There are some exceptions to this, for example, the essential oil of oranges is cold pressed and not steam distilled. I’m not exactly sure how cold pressed oil can be called an essential oil, but it often is. I think if you cold pressed cannabis you can obtain the cannabinoids from it. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong here.

There is a site that lists the essential oils of many kinds of cannabis. It's found here:

http://druglibrary.net/o...n/HEMP/IHA/jiha4208.html

I dont believe for one second that cannabis is anywhere near as toxic as nutmeg or nutmeg oil..people dont die from large doses o cannabis or end up with the side effects people end up with from nutmeg..weather or not they have the same chemicals is irrelevant to me. I used to smoke an ounce of super high grade indica and sativa a week and I never felt toxic effects like the ones associated with nutmeg..i felt addicted, lazy and pathetic sort of..but not poisoned..not ever.

Nutmeg for me was stoning..but not in a simlar way to cannabis..it was just something different altogether.

Fractal enchantment, so you tried nutmeg oil then? I'm talking about nutmeg oil and not nutmeg. If not, we're talking about different things. NUTMEG IS NOT THE SAME AS NUTMEG OIL. There is a huge difference. Nutmeg is far more toxic than nutmeg oil.

The main compound in nutmeg is trimyristin which causes fatty liver disease. That's not present in nutmeg oil. There are many other toxic compounds in nutmeg that are not in the oil.

no I just dont think you can really compare cannabis to nutmeg or nutmeg oil..i dont find that comparison to useful concidering the way cannabinoids for one thing modulate the effects of other cannabinoids and possibly other alkaloids found in cannabis..the main actives in nutmeg oil are not the main actives in cannabis...they are just 2 very different things. Just becasue some of the same chemicals occure in both plants doesnt necessarily mean they have similar modes of action at all..thats way to oversimplified. And I dont even really barely ever care to smoke cannabis, im just saying.

I understand what you are saying ron that nutmeg oil shouldnt be any more toxic than cannabis..its just the way full spectrum profiles of chemicals interact tends to differ at time from the seperate chemicals themselves.

What are the ratio of these terpenes in nutmeg oil as opposed to in cannabis?

fractal enchantment, so we ARE talking about two different things. I don't even want to go into nutmeg powder or nutmeg nuts. That's a whole different ballgame. I've eaten large amounts of nutmeg powder. It's nasty. Don't think for one second I'm talking about nutmeg powder or nutmeg nuts. Get that out of your mind. The oil is very different. No one ever died from using 10 ml of nutmeg oil. Your comparison with marijuana is not fair because you're not talking about a concentrated oil, your talking about raw unextracted plant material. I'm talking about the essential oils.

To compare 1 ounce of marijuana to nutmeg oil, you’d have to compare it on a dose per dose basis, not on a gram for gram basis. That’s not a fair comparison. The amount of marijuana that contains 1 ml of essential oil is about as toxic as 1 ml of nutmeg oil. There’s no question about that. They contain many of the exact same oils.

The LD50 for oral use of THC in rats is 1270 mg/kg.

The LD50 for oral use of myristicin in rats is 4260 mg/kg.

Yeah, those are facts. Myristicin is LESS TOXIC than the THC found in marijuana.

Again, I'm talking about nutmeg oil, and NOT nutmeg powder or nutmeg nuts.

Few people know that myristicin is less toxic than THC. So on a dose per dose basis, nutmeg oil is about as toxic as marijuana is. That's clear as day to me. Forget about nutmeg powder or whole nutmeg; they contain trimyristin and other junk that's harmful to you which the oil doesn't contain.

^CBD has been proven to downregulate the effects of THC in the brain..this is my whole point about full spectrum effects as opposed to seperate compounds..cannabis is far from pure THC..ive had both..totally diff things.

And this is the problem with hydro grown crap cannabis as well..bread to hgih THC and low CBD..and higher ammounts of aromatic terpenes.

None of this really matters anyway..I dont disbelieve that nutmeg oil is safe.